Recruiting

[Creekwater Werts]

Imagine yourself as a Basketball Head Coach. Now imagine yourself as a Head Basketball Coach that can actively seek all of the best players from not only your area, but any area of the state. It sure wouldn't be hard to cherry pick some of the best players from schools that have little, to no, chance of competing for a championship. Think about how eager a 16 to 18 year old kid would be, to get a chance to play on a team of superstars.

That is the advantage of recruiting. Essentially skirting all of the SCHSL rules regarding eligibility.

Now, imagine yourself as the Head Football Coach of a team that won multiple state championships and that to this day, is a perennial powerhouse. Why would you decide to just quit that job for another? Ask Strait Herron from South Pointe. Now at Legion's Collegiate.

That is recruiting. And that is what it is doing to High School Sports in South Carolina right in front of our very eyes.

Basketball is actually a perfect example to see where this stuff is heading. Gray Collegiate has been for years, and will continue to be 2A State champs in basketball for years to come unless something changes. You will never see another 2A bball team competing with them. It's an all star travel team lol. A disgrace to the children who work so hard to not even have a chance to compete.

[Creekwater Werts]

Unfortunately they will find another.

Especially behind the offensive line they have been able to assemble.

I know their offensive line and S/C coach, Cory Helms, and he literally has a training camp where he coaches lineman from all over Columbia and surrounding areas and then persuades the good ones to come play for Gray.

That on top of the recruiting advantage they already have is just insurmountable for small town kids.

They think their billy bada$$es, but in reality, Adam Holmes wasn't able to do anything without poaching other players.

And you can make whatever argument you want, but go look up the scores and records of Gray collegiate before they caught steam with recruiting. They were terrible. Go look at his record with Orangeburg prep. Terrible.

He aint Shi+, and even when they win tonight that won't change nothing.

If he had to coach at a traditional school, he wouldn't be shi+, and it burns me to the core that he thinks he's so good at what he does.

He's not.

Would love to have him run his mouth at me like he has with reporters and opposing teams this year. They might be professional enough to turn the other cheek but I promise you, Creekwater is not. Would not end well for him and his ego.

I really like this energy. Need more of it here.

The fact there is a company(Pinnacle) that runs these charter schools tells me everything I need to know. Sure they are probably non-profit, or not-for-profit but that doesn’t mean nobody is lining their pockets off this setup.

Another thing about Holmes and the like, the worst part of them flapping their gums is the amount of incredulity they use. They clutch their pearls idea that they are recruiting, or at the very least have advantages that traditional public schools don’t. And then to paint it like the public school administrators are evil for denying their kids a place to practice and play their games. Nobody asked them to opt out of the traditional public school experience.

I know teams in their regions and playoffs are contractually obligated to play them, but I don’t get why any public school schedules them non-conference. Only helps legitimize them.

Legion is joining the NC private school league, partially because nobody in York County will play them in anything. Why would anyone allow them to see your players and potentially scout them and recruit them.

One last thing about recruiting, whether it’s done by charter, private or public schools, it’s often done by the parents and usually along the lines of, “With what we have coming back, if we get you in the mix and your buddy who plays DL we can make run at the state championship.”

Thanks Max. You are exactly right.

Everyone keeps saying there's no way to make everyone happy.

Well, sure.

But how about instead of traditional schools getting the short end of the stick, how bout they get the short end of the stick since they are the ones to choose to be that way.

Here's an analogy. Don't geek out folks, it is just an analogy. (Probably a better one I could come up with but this is the first one that popped into my head and lunch breaks are only so long)

If I'm a sheriff and and 99% of my towns citizens are good, and 1% are criminals. Do I let the criminal lead a regular life like other folks? Or do I make them lead a life surrounded by other criminals, since they chose to be criminals. Sure, they are people too, but THEY chose to take shortcuts, THEY chose to do things that normal people don't do.

You put those cowards in jail!

Sure it doesn't make them happy. But, they are the ones that chose to be that way, not law abiding citizens.

Extreme example, sure, but the same logic applies. Not everyone is happy, but the traditionals shouldn't be affected. If we do choose to give someone the short end of the stick, it should be the ones who chose to be different. Not the ones who have done everything the right way since inception.

I personally think that there are ways around this, but it seems most have come to the consensus that there is nothing to make everyone happy.

Fine. Just don't make the people who do things the right way be punished.

--

As far as the non for profit stuff, I totally agree. Go look up non for profit org. and you'll see how BS that term is.

Gray invites kids to tour the school and take professional pictures of them in Gray Coll. jerseys like they are recruits on a college visit. And don't say it ain't so because I have proof.

Who is paying for this? I know photoshoots don't come cheap. Professional photographers, professional equipment, administrators who can take time out of there day to show future enrollees their new home? Who else is doing this? Nobody. Why? Because traditional schools are too broke to pay teachers a decent salary. Yet here Gray is acting as a college team with probably a multi thousand dollar budget for the sole purpose of luring kids from other places.

IDC What the H E double L you think. That is advantage.

It's sickening, and I'm tired of being quiet.

It's not right to the coaches, the communities, and most of all, the kids who work their a$$ off to not even have a chance.

[Damefan]

Imagine yourself as a Basketball Head Coach. Now imagine yourself as a Head Basketball Coach that can actively seek all of the best players from not only your area, but any area of the state. It sure wouldn't be hard to cherry pick some of the best players from schools that have little, to no, chance of competing for a championship. Think about how eager a 16 to 18 year old kid would be, to get a chance to play on a team of superstars.

That is the advantage of recruiting. Essentially skirting all of the SCHSL rules regarding eligibility.

Now, imagine yourself as the Head Football Coach of a team that won multiple state championships and that to this day, is a perennial powerhouse. Why would you decide to just quit that job for another? Ask Strait Herron from South Pointe. Now at Legion's Collegiate.

That is recruiting. And that is what it is doing to High School Sports in South Carolina right in front of our very eyes.

I have a niece that lived in Columbia whose's daughter was zoned for one school but had friends on her travel Volleyball team at Gray's. Because it is a charter school and they can take anyone willing to drive or be driven to school she transferred to be with her travel team teammates. While I agree that if you can give your child a better education and athletic opportunity (she got a college scholarship) that is cool, but I don't agree with them being placed in a classification that is unfair to the rest of the competition because of loophole rules. Charter schools that are actively following this protocol should be in an open classification and made to compete with equal talent as close as possible. In many cases, it would be AAAA or AAAAA. Look at the Mater Dei's, John Bosco's, and schools like them. Schools with small enrollments dominate their top-level school league championships. The private schools that chose to be a part of the SCHSL should be placed in this classification likewise. If they don't like it join SCISA!!

However, I know of a team in the state that's basketball program is made up of pretty much the starting lineup of a travel team. They have had great success with this program with the travel team filtering in players. This use to be done by teaching elements of your program through the recreation leagues at an early age, then HS coaches would get the middle school programs to run their offense and defense (or at least something close), and then the kids have a level of knowledge when they get to the HS.

With travel sports now the system has changed for those who have and don't. Parents that can afford travel vs those who can't. I know parents that travel an hour or more for their kid's travel teams. Some have been even talked into moving to different communities so they can keep kids together. I predict travel programs will ultimately be the downfall of HS sports in the future. You have no further to look than at sports such as soccer, basketball, baseball, softball, swimming, and others. These kids get scholarships because of their travel programs not because of the HS.

[Creekwater Werts]

Imagine yourself as a Basketball Head Coach. Now imagine yourself as a Head Basketball Coach that can actively seek all of the best players from not only your area, but any area of the state. It sure wouldn't be hard to cherry pick some of the best players from schools that have little, to no, chance of competing for a championship. Think about how eager a 16 to 18 year old kid would be, to get a chance to play on a team of superstars.

That is the advantage of recruiting. Essentially skirting all of the SCHSL rules regarding eligibility.

Now, imagine yourself as the Head Football Coach of a team that won multiple state championships and that to this day, is a perennial powerhouse. Why would you decide to just quit that job for another? Ask Strait Herron from South Pointe. Now at Legion's Collegiate.

That is recruiting. And that is what it is doing to High School Sports in South Carolina right in front of our very eyes.

I have a niece that lived in Columbia whose's daughter was zoned for one school but had friends on her travel Volleyball team at Gray's. Because it is a charter school and they can take anyone willing to drive or be driven to school she transferred to be with her travel team teammates. While I agree that if you can give your child a better education and athletic opportunity (she got a college scholarship) that is cool, but I don't agree with them being placed in a classification that is unfair to the rest of the competition because of loophole rules. Charter schools that are actively following this protocol should be in an open classification and made to compete with equal talent as close as possible. In many cases, it would be AAAA or AAAAA. Look at the Mater Dei's, John Bosco's, and schools like them. Schools with small enrollments dominate their top-level school league championships. The private schools that chose to be a part of the SCHSL should be placed in this classification likewise. If they don't like it join SCISA!!

However, I know of a team in the state that's basketball program is made up of pretty much the starting lineup of a travel team. They have had great success with this program with the travel team filtering in players. This use to be done by teaching elements of your program through the recreation leagues at an early age, then HS coaches would get the middle school programs to run their offense and defense (or at least something close), and then the kids have a level of knowledge when they get to the HS.

With travel sports now the system has changed for those who have and don't. Parents that can afford travel vs those who can't. I know parents that travel an hour or more for their kid's travel teams. Some have been even talked into moving to different communities so they can keep kids together. I predict travel programs will ultimately be the downfall of HS sports in the future. You have no further to look than at sports such as soccer, basketball, baseball, softball, swimming, and others. These kids get scholarships because of their travel programs not because of the HS.

I agree. I'm glad your neice's daughter had a good experience, and I'm sure, being surrounded by better players gave her better opportunity. Nobody is saying Charters shouldn't be allowed to exist, we are just saying they are ruining competion within HS sports. I'm sure your neice's daughters previous school were really hurt by having, most likely, their best player transfer to Gray. Good for her I guess, but what about the other girls who couldn't afford the same luxury. For this reasoning, I believe it is common sense to make them play in their own division, or at the very least, stiffer competition. Gray nearly beat 5A Gaffney in football this year for God sake.

Travel teams are hendering high school sports and the last thing we should want to do is allow that to carry over into traditional hs sports.

[Damefan]

Imagine yourself as a Basketball Head Coach. Now imagine yourself as a Head Basketball Coach that can actively seek all of the best players from not only your area, but any area of the state. It sure wouldn't be hard to cherry pick some of the best players from schools that have little, to no, chance of competing for a championship. Think about how eager a 16 to 18 year old kid would be, to get a chance to play on a team of superstars.

That is the advantage of recruiting. Essentially skirting all of the SCHSL rules regarding eligibility.

Now, imagine yourself as the Head Football Coach of a team that won multiple state championships and that to this day, is a perennial powerhouse. Why would you decide to just quit that job for another? Ask Strait Herron from South Pointe. Now at Legion's Collegiate.

That is recruiting. And that is what it is doing to High School Sports in South Carolina right in front of our very eyes.

I have a niece that lived in Columbia whose's daughter was zoned for one school but had friends on her travel Volleyball team at Gray's. Because it is a charter school and they can take anyone willing to drive or be driven to school she transferred to be with her travel team teammates. While I agree that if you can give your child a better education and athletic opportunity (she got a college scholarship) that is cool, but I don't agree with them being placed in a classification that is unfair to the rest of the competition because of loophole rules. Charter schools that are actively following this protocol should be in an open classification and made to compete with equal talent as close as possible. In many cases, it would be AAAA or AAAAA. Look at the Mater Dei's, John Bosco's, and schools like them. Schools with small enrollments dominate their top-level school league championships. The private schools that chose to be a part of the SCHSL should be placed in this classification likewise. If they don't like it join SCISA!!

However, I know of a team in the state that's basketball program is made up of pretty much the starting lineup of a travel team. They have had great success with this program with the travel team filtering in players. This use to be done by teaching elements of your program through the recreation leagues at an early age, then HS coaches would get the middle school programs to run their offense and defense (or at least something close), and then the kids have a level of knowledge when they get to the HS.

With travel sports now the system has changed for those who have and don't. Parents that can afford travel vs those who can't. I know parents that travel an hour or more for their kid's travel teams. Some have been even talked into moving to different communities so they can keep kids together. I predict travel programs will ultimately be the downfall of HS sports in the future. You have no further to look than at sports such as soccer, basketball, baseball, softball, swimming, and others. These kids get scholarships because of their travel programs not because of the HS.

I agree. I'm glad your neice's daughter had a good experience, and I'm sure, being surrounded by better players gave her better opportunity. Nobody is saying Charters shouldn't be allowed to exist, we are just saying they are ruining competion within HS sports. I'm sure your neice's daughters previous school were really hurt by having, most likely, their best player transfer to Gray. Good for her I guess, but what about the other girls who couldn't afford the same luxury. For this reasoning, I believe it is common sense to make them play in their own division, or at the very least, stiffer competition. Gray nearly beat 5A Gaffney in football this year for God sake.

Travel teams are hendering high school sports and the last thing we should want to do is allow that to carry over into traditional hs sports.

It sorta goes back to the day when if you weren't good enough to play for the school team you played Rec League or Church League. Now there are so many options. Even travel teams are experiencing a similar problem where you can only have so many on a team but you like this one kid or maybe 4 kids so you assemble the 2nd team to allow you the opportunity to preserve that kid until next season when someone ages out.

The problem, there are the other kids on that 2nd team who really aren't good enough but you want those special kids. Kids then when they become eligible to try out for their HS team and when they get cut their parents holler, "but my kid on a travel team", so what, people sometimes tell you that you are better cause they don't want to hurt your feelings! I stopped playing baseball when my younger brother was selected for a team and I wasn't at age 13. I still loved baseball and could have worked harder at baseball but I realized early on with my parent's grace that I wasn't going to be good at everything. I just chose something else and was a church league/rec league All-Star in softball. I had a great time. If society would stop teaching everyone is a winner (because someone has to lose) and more about did you have fun today and do your best then we would be in a better place. I thought about the kid from DF who went to IMG Academy. $63,000 to go to school there, was it a scholarship, was he blessed to have parents that had that kind of money? Who knows, but maybe he will be destined for greater things. I am happy for him and he got to develop his talent and play with some of the best in the country, and with some of the best teachers and facilities at his disposal.

Muhammad Ali asked me once who was the greatest when he was in my parent's restaurant, I told him he was. He told me no, the greatest will never really be known because that person may not have gotten the best training, education, home support, etc. We have the opportunities that are placed in front of us and we make the choices with what we do with them.

[Rebel-Fan-74]

My only question about moving them up is that you are not solving the problem, just shifting it to another group. Is it fair to make 4A or 5A schools play against the recruited teams? That solves nothing, so why don't we go ahead and look for real solutions and solve the issue....

I don't have the solution, but I agree with the thought that it is not going away and something has to be done to make it a level playing field. If you are not a true PUBLIC school, then you do not belong in a PUBLIC high school league.

[Damefan]

My only question about moving them up is that you are not solving the problem, just shifting it to another group. Is it fair to make 4A or 5A schools play against the recruited teams? That solves nothing, so why don't we go ahead and look for real solutions and solve the issue....

I don't have the solution, but I agree with the thought that it is not going away and something has to be done to make it a level playing field. If you are not a true PUBLIC school, then you do not belong in a PUBLIC high school league.

I don't think you will ever entirely solve the problem, however placing them in a division that the "OVERALL" talent level might be more in line with their competition will slow them down. Private schools and Sports themed schools are a growing theme in this country. The following article is from Forbes magazine Dec 2015. It is a good read about New Jersey.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcook/20 ... 748e8b705b

[Rebel-Fan-74]

I don't think you will ever entirely solve the problem, however placing them in a division that the "OVERALL" talent level might be more in line with their competition will slow them down. Private schools and Sports themed schools are a growing theme in this country. The following article is from Forbes magazine Dec 2015. It is a good read about New Jersey.

So the solution is to punish the mid- and lower level 5A schools that already have to face the Gaffney's & Dutch Fork's by adding the schools that recruit? I'm sure Riverside, Wade Hampton and the likes are all in favor of that solution....


Why not just do away with all classifications, allow schools to choose where they want to play like they do for college. You want to be Division I (or FBS), Division 1A (or FCS), Division II, etc?

[5thqtr]

My only question about moving them up is that you are not solving the problem, just shifting it to another group. Is it fair to make 4A or 5A schools play against the recruited teams? That solves nothing, so why don't we go ahead and look for real solutions and solve the issue....

I don't have the solution, but I agree with the thought that it is not going away and something has to be done to make it a level playing field. If you are not a true PUBLIC school, then you do not belong in a PUBLIC high school league.

AS I watch Gray Collegiate - this thought just kept ringing in my head! "If you are not a true public school, you do not belong in a league with schools who can only get players from that zone"! Period!

Not to bring up SP - but over the few years SP has been around people have tried to say SP recruits. But, if you go on YouTube you can see all the same kids playing gray-y and at Saluda Trail Middle. Or Castle Heights Middle.
Flip to a Gray Collegiate that's in the middle of a metropolitan area - with the focus being on kids with the means/motivation/determination to get a kid they feel has the athleticism/skill/ability to be a college athlete and "bam"! You get a Gray Collegiate dominating a Silver Bluff and an Abbeville. It should have been Abbeville vs. Silver Bluff tonight - not a Columbia all-star team! Who in their right mind think that it is fair to those 2A sized communities. Heck - 3A all the way to 5A communities for that matter! It's not right! Did they shut down SCISA?

North and South Carolina need a Collegiate/Private school league! They can play each other - but the water is getting muddy with the Bishop Englands, Gray Collegiates, Pinewood Prep, who thinks it "sporty"?
Charlotte Catholic vs. Gray Collegiate would be a great contest! One I could care less about - but it would be a great contest as they both have kids who are not having to be constrained by the "normal constraints"!

[Rebel-Fan-74]

I didn't even watch them...

It is just not something I want to see. It's like putting Clemson in the Southern Conference, playing Furman, Wofford, UT Chattanooga, etc.