Misinformation

[mrfootballtalk]

So with what you just said that schools in metro areas recruit that is all well and good. Some are better than others at it for sure. Parents should be able to move their child to improve their chances for sure, but that does not negate the statement you made about rural schools not having the same opportunities to "recruit".

So the schools that can cap their enrollment and only allow in athletes to their student bodies is that the same???? Should they be playing against teams that can not do the same thing???? Or should the schools that are allowed to pick and choose their student body be made to play with the schools that can do this as well???

In fairness to the smaller schools that have to use what they have in their attendance zones, because people are not moving there, be made to play against schools that either do not have a legitimate zone, because they are not apart of a district and can "recruit" players from an entire county.

I see the problem not so much of the they can recruit and kids should have the option to better themselves in athletics or academics, because they should be able to do that. Good programs do recruit players not necessarily in a going out and physically recruit them, but when families are looking to move and they want their kid to be apart of a great program that factors into the equation. The problem is the level playing field, why do you think IMG is not apart of the Florida league??? Because they are not on a level playing field with the rest of the public high schools.

This is not just a football problem, it is an all sport problem for these smaller schools. Either have a charter/private league or make all non-public schools that want to play in the SCHSL play classifications up.

Great post, spot on. Districts are well-defined for public schools. If a kid lives across the street from a district line, they will have to jump through some hoops to play in a district they literally live across the street from. That is definitely not going to be the case for these recruiting private schools and they know it. I wonder how much different things would look if a private school had a defined geographical area they had to draw from?

Private schools can pick and choose both their students (athletes) and how many they allow to attend, essentially allowing them to drop down classifications as they please. For example, Southside Christian can't be Abbeville in 2A and see that another private school is having great success recruiting (Gray), so they drop to 1A to win two straight championships (Take a look at the margin of victory against 1A schools). I guess all those traditional powerhouse 1A schools have suddenly forgotten how to coach and play the game, oh well. Guess they should just give up.

First off private schools do have attendance zones. Look it up. In Greenville County SCS is JL Mann, St joe is JL Mann and Christ Church is Southside High. If a kid comes into your school that is not one of those then they parent and school have to have a intradistrict transfer from for the school the kid is trying to leave. If they school the kid is leaving will not sign the form the student is not eligible to play sports there for one year. If you honestly think schools are caping their enrollment for sports reasons you are 1,000 percent wrong. Those three schools enrollment have stayed the same for the last 4-6 years. SCS dropped because the SCHSL lowered the number to drop into 1A because they didn't have enough teams in 1A. Opinions and facts are different things. You can believe that schools are capping enrollment but what facts are there? Schools like that have only so much room .. so yes they max limits on capacity but that is a building capacity thing and classroom space thing not a philosophical thing for sports.. State Championships don't pay the electric and water bills. Listening to a Abbeville Fan lecturing someone on fairness is laughable. You guy have dozens of kids that should have been at Calhoun Falls playing in Abbeville. Why has CF gotten so small ? Is it just nobody is moving in ? or someone taking players ? Is Abbeville recruiting them or are they just leaving for a better situation ... I would love to here the answers to this.

[fridaynighttalking]

So no other Greenville County school have to worry about attendance zones, just the private schools? It's the same district, kids can move to the high school of their choice. The private schools are getting them in middle school. Just take a look at the twitter accounts of Southside Christian players who did not attend before 6th grade or so. You can see they are posting things before SCS, but there's a sudden change when they make the move.

We are all throwing out facts and opinions, but the general opinion of MOST of this state is 1.) private schools unfairly recruit and 2.) they need to play in their own league and earn their own state championships. We can debate the reasons for our opinions, but the FACT of the matter is super teams are being created to play against teams that draw from a small population of students.

[Rebel-Fan-74]

This is not just a football problem, it is an all sport problem for these smaller schools. Either have a charter/private league or make all non-public schools that want to play in the SCHSL play classifications up.

I agree with a lot you say except this part....


Making them play up just moves the problem from 2A to 3A, or 3A to 4A. And yes, bigger schools can better handle the issue but we saw first hand, Gray -vs- Gaffney, that is not the answer. In that game, the eventual 5A champion at home only won by a FG. So moving Gray from 2A to 3A wouldn't solve anything. Oceanside beat the Lower State 4A champion. This issue is only going to grow more and more and continue to expand to become a bigger and bigger problem.

I do not believe they can withstand season long pounding
In 5AAAAA.even your bad teams are going to pound on you.
We have numbers . Stall had some huge guys .
West ashley had a a few .plus thier lb imho is the best in the state or lower state at that. Then the playoffs they have to play 3 or 4 gaffneys DFs nw ect
They won't make it through that.j

But you are not addressing my point...

It is not fair to the teams like those listed below that already have little to no chance of winning a Region Title or finishing second and hosting a playoff game to add another team just because they are "too good to play where the rules say they should play!" Now don't get me wrong, I don't think it is right to have Gray playing in 2A either. But we need a solution that is not just moving the issue somewhere else, we need a real solution and that seems to be something like they do in California, an OPEN CLASSIFICATION for private schools. Personally, I think the only way this happens is for a parent in Abbeville or somewhere like that to file a petition in court.

FORT MILL
WADE HAMPTON (G)
BOILING SPRINGS
R.B. STALL
WHITE KNOLL
J.L. MANN
WOODMONT
WANDO
RIVERSIDE
NATION FORD

[mrfootballtalk]

So no other Greenville County school have to worry about attendance zones, just the private schools? It's the same district, kids can move to the high school of their choice. The private schools are getting them in middle school. Just take a look at the twitter accounts of Southside Christian players who did not attend before 6th grade or so. You can see they are posting things before SCS, but there's a sudden change when they make the move.

We are all throwing out facts and opinions, but the general opinion of MOST of this state is 1.) private schools unfairly recruit and 2.) they need to play in their own league and earn their own state championships. We can debate the reasons for our opinions, but the FACT of the matter is super teams are being created to play against teams that draw from a small population of students.

Let me clear this up again. Greenville County has schools zones, where you assigned to go. But GC is school choice your 9th grade year ( meaning you can go anywhere ). Once you establish you school of residency you will need a intra district transfer form to be signed by the school you are leaving and the County AD to be eligible at another school. It doesn't matter public or private. Also are we really talking about 6th and 7th grade kids twitter accounts and recruiting? Come on man that is ridiculous, trying to say that a kid coming to a school in 6th or 7th grade is being recruited is a stretch.. and even so there is nothing illegal with it. You are talking about 11 and 12 year old kids. So by your standard if a kid comes into a private or charter school in the 6th or 7th grade he is being recruited ... if he comes in the 9th -12th grade he is being recruited... so when are they NOT being recruited ? I am DYING TO HEAR THIS ANSWER !

[Damefan]

So no other Greenville County school have to worry about attendance zones, just the private schools? It's the same district, kids can move to the high school of their choice. The private schools are getting them in middle school. Just take a look at the twitter accounts of Southside Christian players who did not attend before 6th grade or so. You can see they are posting things before SCS, but there's a sudden change when they make the move.

We are all throwing out facts and opinions, but the general opinion of MOST of this state is 1.) private schools unfairly recruit and 2.) they need to play in their own league and earn their own state championships. We can debate the reasons for our opinions, but the FACT of the matter is super teams are being created to play against teams that draw from a small population of students.

Let me clear this up again. Greenville County has schools zones, where you assigned to go. But GC is school choice your 9th grade year ( meaning you can go anywhere ). Once you establish you school of residency you will need a intra district transfer form to be signed by the school you are leaving and the County AD to be eligible at another school. It doesn't matter public or private. Also are we really talking about 6th and 7th grade kids twitter accounts and recruiting? Come on man that is ridiculous, trying to say that a kid coming to a school in 6th or 7th grade is being recruited is a stretch.. and even so there is nothing illegal with it. You are talking about 11 and 12 year old kids. So by your standard if a kid comes into a private or charter school in the 6th or 7th grade he is being recruited ... if he comes in the 9th -12th grade he is being recruited... so when are they NOT being recruited ? I am DYING TO HEAR THIS ANSWER !

So what you are implying is that Oceanside "recruited" the QB from Summerville this year since he transferred to Oceanside following his old coach??

[Rebel-Fan-74]

So what you are implying is that Oceanside "recruited" the QB from Summerville this year since he transferred to Oceanside following his old coach??

In reality, only a few people KNOW if he was recruited or not. The coach may have been the most surprised of all when the kid showed up, having NEVER even spoken to him or his parents about transferring, or the coach may have been making contact (directly or through other people) for months. KNOWING is different than suspecting. It's like, I know Lee Harvey Oswald did not act alone!

Who of us would move to get our child in to Dutch Fork if our son was a great QB?
Who of us would move to get our child in to Byrnes or Wando if our child wanted to be in a championship marching band?
Who of us would move to get our child in to a better academic situation? If your son or daughter wanted an appointment to the Naval Academy, would you move to get them in to a school with a better math and science department?

I know there is an old saying, "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck!" So when that 5 star WR shows up at Dutch Fork, "Old Tom Knotts is at it again, recruiting the best players available!" But, if it were my son, I will tell you, I didn't wait on an invitation from Coach Knotts, I moved him myself!

The question is not "IF" there is recruiting, the question is "Do the circumstances of the school allow for the opportunity to recruit?" If there is a loophole, legally or situationally, then it needs to be addressed openly and fairly.

[fridaynighttalking]

So no other Greenville County school have to worry about attendance zones, just the private schools? It's the same district, kids can move to the high school of their choice. The private schools are getting them in middle school. Just take a look at the twitter accounts of Southside Christian players who did not attend before 6th grade or so. You can see they are posting things before SCS, but there's a sudden change when they make the move.

We are all throwing out facts and opinions, but the general opinion of MOST of this state is 1.) private schools unfairly recruit and 2.) they need to play in their own league and earn their own state championships. We can debate the reasons for our opinions, but the FACT of the matter is super teams are being created to play against teams that draw from a small population of students.

Let me clear this up again. Greenville County has schools zones, where you assigned to go. But GC is school choice your 9th grade year ( meaning you can go anywhere ). Once you establish you school of residency you will need a intra district transfer form to be signed by the school you are leaving and the County AD to be eligible at another school. It doesn't matter public or private. Also are we really talking about 6th and 7th grade kids twitter accounts and recruiting? Come on man that is ridiculous, trying to say that a kid coming to a school in 6th or 7th grade is being recruited is a stretch.. and even so there is nothing illegal with it. You are talking about 11 and 12 year old kids. So by your standard if a kid comes into a private or charter school in the 6th or 7th grade he is being recruited ... if he comes in the 9th -12th grade he is being recruited... so when are they NOT being recruited ? I am DYING TO HEAR THIS ANSWER !

They are doing things like that in middle school based on the new rule the high school league implanted recently that was meant to slow recruiting down at the high school level. You can make all the arguments you want, so will I, but the fact of the matter still remains, there is definitely something going on with these private schools and the overwhelming majority of them winning state championships in the lower classifications. You have obviously never had to see what it does to the public school kids when they reach a state championship just to get crushed by a super team that was bought and paid for by schools that don't abide by the same rules. Enjoy it while it lasts though, I hope your kid feels good about their bought and paid for championship(s). It seems there are a lot more people starting to get on the right side of this debate throughout our state. Private schools and their recruiting habits do not belong in a public high school league, period. Several other states have agreed and moved their private school into their own league already.

[Damefan]

So what you are implying is that Oceanside "recruited" the QB from Summerville this year since he transferred to Oceanside following his old coach??

In reality, only a few people KNOW if he was recruited or not. The coach may have been the most surprised of all when the kid showed up, having NEVER even spoken to him or his parents about transferring, or the coach may have been making contact (directly or through other people) for months. KNOWING is different than suspecting. It's like, I know Lee Harvey Oswald did not act alone!

Who of us would move to get our child in to Dutch Fork if our son was a great QB?
Who of us would move to get our child in to Byrnes or Wando if our child wanted to be in a championship marching band?
Who of us would move to get our child in to a better academic situation? If your son or daughter wanted an appointment to the Naval Academy, would you move to get them in to a school with a better math and science department?

I know there is an old saying, "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck!" So when that 5 star WR shows up at Dutch Fork, "Old Tom Knotts is at it again, recruiting the best players available!" But, if it were my son, I will tell you, I didn't wait on an invitation from Coach Knotts, I moved him myself!

The question is not "IF" there is recruiting, the question is "Do the circumstances of the school allow for the opportunity to recruit?" If there is a loophole, legally or situationally, then it needs to be addressed openly and fairly.

I was only responding to the fact that the poster said "If he comes in the 9th -12th grade he is being recruited... so when are they NOT being recruited ?". I have no idea who recruited who or if they were recruited at all. This is a touchy subject for many including myself. I still think that schools "like" Oceanside, Legions, and Greys should play in an open classification. Having had a niece who attended Greys I still think they should be there. Open borders in these schools allows anyone willing to drive can attend.

[Rebel-Fan-74]

I was only responding to the fact that the poster said "If he comes in the 9th -12th grade he is being recruited... so when are they NOT being recruited ?". I have no idea who recruited who or if they were recruited at all. This is a touchy subject for many including myself. I still think that schools "like" Oceanside, Legions, and Greys should play in an open classification. Having had a niece who attended Greys I still think they should be there. Open borders in these schools allows anyone willing to drive can attend.

I agree, moving them up a classification or even two doesn't address the issue, just moves it from one place to another. Make them play in an OPEN CLASSIFICATION, and if public schools want to play in the OPEN CLASSIFICATION, let them as well. OPEN means OPEN!

[Atown97]

So with what you just said that schools in metro areas recruit that is all well and good. Some are better than others at it for sure. Parents should be able to move their child to improve their chances for sure, but that does not negate the statement you made about rural schools not having the same opportunities to "recruit".

So the schools that can cap their enrollment and only allow in athletes to their student bodies is that the same???? Should they be playing against teams that can not do the same thing???? Or should the schools that are allowed to pick and choose their student body be made to play with the schools that can do this as well???

In fairness to the smaller schools that have to use what they have in their attendance zones, because people are not moving there, be made to play against schools that either do not have a legitimate zone, because they are not apart of a district and can "recruit" players from an entire county.

I see the problem not so much of the they can recruit and kids should have the option to better themselves in athletics or academics, because they should be able to do that. Good programs do recruit players not necessarily in a going out and physically recruit them, but when families are looking to move and they want their kid to be apart of a great program that factors into the equation. The problem is the level playing field, why do you think IMG is not apart of the Florida league??? Because they are not on a level playing field with the rest of the public high schools.

This is not just a football problem, it is an all sport problem for these smaller schools. Either have a charter/private league or make all non-public schools that want to play in the SCHSL play classifications up.

Great post, spot on. Districts are well-defined for public schools. If a kid lives across the street from a district line, they will have to jump through some hoops to play in a district they literally live across the street from. That is definitely not going to be the case for these recruiting private schools and they know it. I wonder how much different things would look if a private school had a defined geographical area they had to draw from?

Private schools can pick and choose both their students (athletes) and how many they allow to attend, essentially allowing them to drop down classifications as they please. For example, Southside Christian can't be Abbeville in 2A and see that another private school is having great success recruiting (Gray), so they drop to 1A to win two straight championships (Take a look at the margin of victory against 1A schools). I guess all those traditional powerhouse 1A schools have suddenly forgotten how to coach and play the game, oh well. Guess they should just give up.

First off private schools do have attendance zones. Look it up. In Greenville County SCS is JL Mann, St joe is JL Mann and Christ Church is Southside High. If a kid comes into your school that is not one of those then they parent and school have to have a intradistrict transfer from for the school the kid is trying to leave. If they school the kid is leaving will not sign the form the student is not eligible to play sports there for one year. If you honestly think schools are caping their enrollment for sports reasons you are 1,000 percent wrong. Those three schools enrollment have stayed the same for the last 4-6 years. SCS dropped because the SCHSL lowered the number to drop into 1A because they didn't have enough teams in 1A. Opinions and facts are different things. You can believe that schools are capping enrollment but what facts are there? Schools like that have only so much room .. so yes they max limits on capacity but that is a building capacity thing and classroom space thing not a philosophical thing for sports.. State Championships don't pay the electric and water bills. Listening to a Abbeville Fan lecturing someone on fairness is laughable. You guy have dozens of kids that should have been at Calhoun Falls playing in Abbeville. Why has CF gotten so small ? Is it just nobody is moving in ? or someone taking players ? Is Abbeville recruiting them or are they just leaving for a better situation ... I would love to here the answers to this.

Dozens of Kids from Calhoun falls....maybe a dozen total in 15yrs to play at abbeville why are you especially so worried that abbeville is recruiting players. You just told me couple weeks ago that we don't send any to college. But again misinformation at the highest. Why would anyone wanna come to the town of abbeville? We just have a different kind of pride that is infectious to others. I still don't know your high school program but I know abbeville we don't even cut players and maybe dress 45 players maybe 50 with JV players pulled up. I don't understand it. The fairness is kids at regular schools go to class for 7hrs and at some Charters they go for 4hrs if that. That's the only place where things aren't level. Please don't move them so the ATrain roll over them.