SCPrepTalk

Something has to be done about the playoffs and classifications...there are too many teams in the playoffs..if nothing else last week should be an example...I mean only one of the Division II games were competitive...ONE! It's a waste of time and gas. What are some of your thoughts on how to make it better...personally I like the 5 Classification model. Get rid of all the inter-classification divisions....you have A, AA, AAA, AAAA and AAAAA. Top two from each region gets in...8 regions per classification. I also like the staying in upper and lower. Upper State and Lower State championships used to be a big deal. It would also cut down on teams from Greenville travelling to Beaufort. Regions 1-4 are Upper State, Regions 5-8 are lower state.

Thoughts?

Slim wrote:Something has to be done about the playoffs and classifications...there are too many teams in the playoffs..if nothing else last week should be an example...I mean only one of the Division II games were competitive...ONE! It's a waste of time and gas. What are some of your thoughts on how to make it better...personally I like the 5 Classification model. Get rid of all the inter-classification divisions....you have A, AA, AAA, AAAA and AAAAA. Top two from each region gets in...8 regions per classification. I also like the staying in upper and lower. Upper State and Lower State championships used to be a big deal. It would also cut down on teams from Greenville travelling to Beaufort. Regions 1-4 are Upper State, Regions 5-8 are lower state.

Thoughts?

The difficult part about five divisions is the breakdown of the REGIONS. Take a look at the top teams and see how you can divide them up. The breakdown and total count would need to be "flexible" to be able to make it work. You would have to take a team below the line and not take a team above the line...

It is not that easy. The big picture is ALL sports, not just football. The Div 1 & 2 breakout is football only. There hasn't seemed to ever be an argument for splitting 4A into two divisions for any other sport other than football. This discussion comes up every year and, yes, tweaking might be done to make the seedings a little more in line, you just cannot group all the "best" teams in 5A and the rest in 4A. The real bottom line is that years ago, Byrnes was terrible. They were everyone's choice for homecoming. They got better and during the 2000's have been a standard to measure against. Northwestern, for example, does not have the number of championships that Byrnes does, but they have been consistently extremely good for about 25 years. Rock Hill and Spartanburg, for example, have been terrible ugly bad and have also won state championships. Even Clover won the championship a few years ago.

Again, there is no perfect solution and the split was done specifically for football.

Just like the 1st round of the NCAA March Madness generally produces many many lopsided games, every school plays all year to (1) get INTO the playoffs, then to (2) ADVANCE in the playoffs.

my 2 cents worth

your position in classification would be based solely on your enrollment. That is all.

The problem is you have to get the schools to agree to any new format. None of the major schools in each division is going to agree to a format with less State titles. So short of a major decline in population we're gonna have 7 state championships until we have 8 and on and on and on.

As a North Augusta fan, I can see how you'd like a system that would put the top 40 or so in AAAAA. But I doubt Byrnes, Northwestern, Gaffney, Goose Creek, and other really competitive programs. are going to sit down and be like "It'd be really cool if there was one less state title to split between us". Especially when for these programs Hiring/Firing decisions are made based on state titles.

IndianFan09 wrote:The problem is you have to get the schools to agree to any new format. None of the major schools in each division is going to agree to a format with less State titles. So short of a major decline in population we're gonna have 7 state championships until we have 8 and on and on and on.

Good point. They are going to vote for what works best for their situation. Keeping in mind the issues with scheduling, setting up regions, and you will see breaking up the top forty into another division is down right difficult to schedule due to the location of the schools...

IndianFan09 wrote:As a North Augusta fan, I can see how you'd like a system that would put the top 40 or so in AAAAA. But I doubt Byrnes, Northwestern, Gaffney, Goose Creek, and other really competitive programs. are going to sit down and be like "It'd be really cool if there was one less state title to split between us". Especially when for these programs Hiring/Firing decisions are made based on state titles.

09 is rolling now.... As a head coach, you are usually judged by W-L and Playoffs and your set up will make it more difficult to get those W's and get deep into the playoffs.

As a fan, we want the best match ups every week, but keep in mind, the balance of power shifts and rolls all the time. Who had Hillcrest as the #2 overall seed? So with all that, it appears more likely that if ANYTHING HAPPENS (and I don't see anything in the near future) it would be A, AA, and AAA then split for the playoffs. Take 60, 64, or whatever works best to balance things out, and maybe even get "flexible" with the rules, by breaking them down into four areas, then by size. The 16 largest schools in 4 particular areas, not necessarily the 48 largest in the entire state.

Please don't read this is a negative tone, I just happen to disagree.

Slim wrote:Something has to be done about the playoffs and classifications...there are too many teams in the playoffs

Disagree. 32 of 52 isn't a bad percentage. 16 of 40 would be be too restrictive in my opinion based on the lack of cross state games. There are 16 teams left this week, Game On!

Slim wrote:..if nothing else last week should be an example...I mean only one of the Division II games were competitive...ONE!

If our main concern is the competitiveness of the games, then the 3A State Championship game last year between Hartsville and Union shouldn't have been played. (62-27, trust me, it wasn't that close.)

Byrnes, Goose Creek, and Northwestern shouldn't play most of the games on their schedules.

The opening week of the playoffs is mostly about David vs. Goliath. Good teams have earned the right to play weaker teams and the weaker teams have an opportunity to pull off the shocker.

Slim wrote: It's a waste of time and gas. What are some of your thoughts on how to make it better...personally I like the 5 Classification model. Get rid of all the inter-classification divisions....you have A, AA, AAA, AAAA and AAAAA. Top two from each region gets in...8 regions per classification. I also like the staying in upper and lower. Upper State and Lower State championships used to be a big deal. Regions 1-4 are Upper State, Regions 5-8 are lower state.

8 Regions would mean that there would be 5 teams in each Region.
Only 4 Region games per year. That would mean that 7 regular season games would be a complete waste of time and gas.

I like the system that we currently employ. It stresses the importance of Region play while still giving some consideration to the entire body of work throughout the season.

Yes. Adjustments could be made but they should only be minor. (small Points system changes and opp. win/calculation changes)

9-2 Lexington and York teams wouldn't make the playoffs in your system because they finished 3rd in their Region.

Division I had a couple of very interesting Upstate vs. Lowstate matchups. (Mauldin at Sumter, Lexington at Dorman)
Probably two of the better games that were played last week.

Your own suggestion would have gotten rid of the only competitive game in the D2 bracket.
Blythewood (Upstate) at Beaufort (Lowstate)

Note that currently there are 30 teams in Regions 1-4 and only 22 in Regions 5-8. That is another reason that we don't employ the Upstate/Lowstate system anymore.

What I find BORING is watching the same teams play over and over. Upper State D1 bracket would be nothing but rematches of Region 2. Not very interesting unless you are from that Region. Trust me, they would be telling you how Mauldin could have won the lower state bracket!

Slim wrote:It would also cut down on teams from Greenville travelling to Beaufort.

I'm from Easley and I enjoyed my 4 hour and 15 minute trip to Beaufort in 2010.


Good Luck to your North Augusta Yellow Jackets!!

I personally think its too many state championships in football. I have been working on what it would be like with 5 classifications for about the past 2 weeks and the only semi-logical way I came up with involved 6 regions in each classification: 3 upper state and 3 lower state with 7-8 teams in each region. Playoff wise it would be upper state playoffs and lower state playoffs with the upper state champion and lower state champion playing for the state championship. The top 4 in each region would go to the playoffs in every sport with region champions and the top seeded region runner up getting byes. I got down to 2A and I had a doozy of a time trying to figure out who would go where and it's not going to work, even though there would be some great matchups. I don't think its feasible. I do think 5A is coming, but not sure if its coming anytime soon. I posted the classifications I came up with before I decided to quit.

Class 5A
Region 1
Westside
Riverside
Easley
TL Hanna
Woodmont
Greenwood
JL Mann
TL Hanna

Region 2
Byrnes
Laurens
Dorman
Spartanburg
Wade Hampton (G)
Mauldin
Hillcrest

Region 3
Gaffney
Clover
Rock Hill
Northwestern
Nation Ford
Boiling Springs
Fort Mill

Region 4
Blythewood
Ridge View
Spring Valley
Lugoff Elgin
South Florence
West Florence
Sumter

Region 5
Dutch Fork
Irmo
Lexington
White Knoll
South Aiken
Fort Dorchester
Summerville

Region 6
Carolina Forest
Stratford
Goose Creek
Wando
West Ashley
Colleton County
Ashley Ridge

Class 4A
Region 1
Berea
BHP
Travelers Rest
Pickens
Eastside
Wren
Blue Ridge

Region 2
York
Lancaster
Union County
Chapin
Greer
South Pointe
Greenville

Region 3
Westwood
RNE
Crestwood
Lakewood
Hartsville
Lower Richland
Orangeburg-Wilkinson

Region 4
North Augusta
Aiken
Midland Valley
River Bluff
AC Flora
Airport
Dreher

Region 5
Conway
Myrtle Beach
NMB
Socastee
St. James
Marlboro County
Wilson

Region 6
Hilton Head
Bluffton
James Island
Beaufort
Cane Bay
Berkeley
Hanahan

Class 3A
Region 1
Daniel
West-Oak
Palmetto
Walhalla
Emerald
Seneca
Pendleton

Region 2
Southside
Powdersville
Woodruff
Pendleton
Clinton
Broome
Chapman


Region 3
Mid Carolina
Newberry
Fairfield Central
Camden
Keenan
Chester
Indian Land

Region 4
Columbia
Manning
Brookland Cayce
Gilbert
Pelion
Swansea
Strom Thurmond


Region 5
Dillon
Lake City
Marion
Aynor
Waccamaw
Loris
Darlington

Region 6
Ridgeland-Hardeeville
Timberland
Edisto
RB Stall
Wade Hampton (H)
Georgetown
Lake Marion

I understand, but it's just difficult for North Augusta to compete...honestly our County is terrible...we pay our teachers terrible salaries and we make all of our coaches teach...ALL OF THEM. We get no money from our county, or very little. And then we have people mad at us because we raise our own funds and then turn around and spend it on what we want...We're one of the smaller schools in AAAA and I just feel frustrated because we would have the chance to win state titles and region titles every year if we weren't always grouped with larger schools...there is a big difference between the programs of Northwestern and North Augusta. Don't get me wrong...I'm not scared to play them, but facts are facts...it's not apples to apples. Year in and year out...they're going to get the better of us.

bbrown1240 wrote: Region 4
Blythewood
Ridge View
Spring Valley
Lugoff Elgin
South Florence <--look at the miles they would travel up and down I-20
West Florence <---especially when you get to basketball season
Sumter

Region 5
Dutch Fork <--north of Columbia
Irmo
Lexington
White Knoll
South Aiken
Fort Dorchester
Summerville <---to Charleston

Region 6
Carolina Forest <--From Myrtle Beach
Stratford
Goose Creek
Wando
West Ashley
Colleton County <--To Walterboro???
Ashley Ridge

Region 2
York
Lancaster
Union County
Chapin
Greer
South Pointe
Greenville

Region 3
Westwood
RNE
Crestwood
Lakewood
Hartsville
Lower Richland
Orangeburg-Wilkinson

Region 4
North Augusta
Aiken
Midland Valley
River Bluff
AC Flora
Airport
Dreher

I highlighted a few problems with travel that jumped at me. Don't get me wrong, I've looked at this myself and there is no easy answer. The best I've come up with is to divide the state into four areas (Upstate, Midlands, PeeDee, Lowcountry) and take the teams based on largest in the area, not necessarily largest in the state.

I used A, AA, and AAA and then dividing them at playoff time, I tried A, AA, AAA, AAAA, and AAAAA and there is always trouble if you go by the entire state. If you go by Regions, you can get a lot closer, but you would want to use three classifications and dividing them to make that work. Problem is, you can have the 69th largest school in AAA and the 66th largest in AA.... if you do it by Regions. But in reality, there is not that much difference in the size when you get that far down the list. You could also be a bit more flexible on granting waivers moving teams up or down when re-alignments come up every other year.