Uvalde Texas

[Fortfor5]

AOC: "Let's dispense with this myth of mental illness."
https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/sta ... wsrc%5Etfw

Sounds like something she would say.

https://ibb.co/QKML9jh

[Penguin]

The law enforcement issue is another thing entirely. Comes down to training. I spent years running toward the sound of gunfire. Completely counter-intuitive and non-sensical. But it came down to training and experience. There is a saying you fight as you train and therefore you train as you fight. Those guys with all that kit on, need to know how it works and understand its capabilities. Training....realistic training with live rounds...done repeatedly...and often. It should be muscle memory. More time on the range and in tactical scenarios and less time writing traffic tickets and chasing some kid with a dime bag. That's the only way you guarantee that. Can't put it off all on the tactical teams. Each officer needs to know how to form a fire team and clear a building...."stack on me".

Also, more resource officers at our schools...have to. One is not enough...arming the teachers is not the answer. Goes back to training and they don't have it and don't have time to do the amount and frequency needed. They need to teach. We have to fix this...

Those worthless pigs trained for a live shooter drill in March of 2022. You call for yet more guns in schools. 19 fully trained pigs stood by like frozen jugs of pee while an 18 year old kid picked off innocent kids and teachers one by one. How many more pigs do you propose that be stationed at every school in America? Because 19 isn't enough or we wouldn't be having this discussion. It sounds to me like you are suggesting that our schools look like our prisons. Hell, even in prisons they are smart enough not to arm the guards. You are smarter than that.

[DFOLDMAN]

The law enforcement issue is another thing entirely. Comes down to training. I spent years running toward the sound of gunfire. Completely counter-intuitive and non-sensical. But it came down to training and experience. There is a saying you fight as you train and therefore you train as you fight. Those guys with all that kit on, need to know how it works and understand its capabilities. Training....realistic training with live rounds...done repeatedly...and often. It should be muscle memory. More time on the range and in tactical scenarios and less time writing traffic tickets and chasing some kid with a dime bag. That's the only way you guarantee that. Can't put it off all on the tactical teams. Each officer needs to know how to form a fire team and clear a building...."stack on me".

Also, more resource officers at our schools...have to. One is not enough...arming the teachers is not the answer. Goes back to training and they don't have it and don't have time to do the amount and frequency needed. They need to teach. We have to fix this...

Those worthless pigs trained for a live shooter drill in March of 2022. You call for yet more guns in schools. 19 fully trained pigs stood by like frozen jugs of pee while an 18 year old kid picked off innocent kids and teachers one by one. How many more pigs do you propose that be stationed at every school in America? Because 19 isn't enough or we wouldn't be having this discussion. It sounds to me like you are suggesting that our schools look like our prisons. Hell, even in prisons they are smart enough not to arm the guards. You are smarter than that.

Penguin- That's the point. What they consider "fully trained" is obviously not. It's about quality and quantity of training- most training in a lot of organizations is check the block. Did they train realistic scenarios, did they train with live rounds (that gets your attention and laserbeams your focus), when was the last time they trained, who designed the training, who validated the training, how often is this trained? If it had been conducted and certified by say ODA or ODD standards- they would have known what to do. Obviously, it was not. I am in no way condoning their response, just the opposite...I am condemning it.

My brother is a US Marshal and I served with the State Departments Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement..."pig"...though endearing, may not be the best nickname. Nineteen were not stationed there, they were the first to arrive. If they had proper training to the standard needed to respond to deadly force, they could have neutralized the threat. I believe you and I both agree having armed school teachers is a mistake. They need to focus on teaching the youth. Protecting them....needs to fall to another agency. I'll state this a little more clearly...properly trained/equipped Resource Officers ...dressed in civilian clothes not in uniforms perhaps are worth it. DF had an incident a while back where the resource officer confronted a man with a gun in the parking lot, and chased him away. Not many people knew about that...when the threat is removed, it's not very sensational and happy endings are soon forgotten. I think we can both agree that how human life is devalued today is heart-wrenching....not sure how it got that way, but we (our generation) needs to take responsibility. We should have been better parents and worried less about chasing our dreams.

[Penguin]

Nice response as opposed to some of the other drivel and talking points. I know that click bait news is the norm in today's society, but we may be better off not glorifying these incidents and encouraging copy cat responses from 18 year old children. There is no one size fits all answer to this, but we have got to start making a concerted effort to at least slow them down. Since this incident last Tuesday, there have been 14 mass shootings in this country resulting in several deaths and 61 injured. Why are we the only country to suffer from this unrelenting barrage of senseless crime?

[DFOLDMAN]

Nice response as opposed to some of the other drivel and talking points. I know that click bait news is the norm in today's society, but we may be better off not glorifying these incidents and encouraging copy cat responses from 18 year old children. There is no one size fits all answer to this, but we have got to start making a concerted effort to at least slow them down. Since this incident last Tuesday, there have been 14 mass shootings in this country resulting in several deaths and 61 injured. Why are we the only country to suffer from this unrelenting barrage of senseless crime?

I'm like you Penguin, ...what has happened to society and especially these young men that think violence on the innocent and vulnerable is even to be contemplated. Love your brothers and sisters folks. I am beyond mad or sad...just heart-broken.

We need some football to make us smile...our happy place

[1 CAT FAN]

Mass Shooting Prevented: Woman With A Pistol, Kills Crazed Man Opening Fire At Graduation Party
Did you hear about this one on mainstream media?

https://www.redvoicemedia.com/2022/05/m ... rty-video/

Never leave home without one, there are too many crazed nuts out there in today's society.

Louisiana Deputy Allegedly Shot By 13-Year-Old Suspected Of Burglary
Think about what you were doing when you were 13 years old. Were you breaking into businesses and shooting cops?

Whilst patrolling the area near the Backroads Mercantile grocery that had just been burglarized, Deputy Doby reportedly spotted an individual – who was later determined to be a 13-year-old male – walking away from the grocery store.

At approximately 3:00 a.m.,
https://www.redvoicemedia.com/2022/05/l ... -burglary/

His parents probably said he's such a good boy.

Sheriff Releases Mugshot Of 10-Year-Old Arrested For School Shooting Threat, Calls Out Parents
Fake threat, real consequences.

“Children make mistakes,” he said. But parents need to be the ones to explain it to their children. He also said that we should get back to “old school discipline” to “hold people accountable.”

No matter how old a person is, the sheriff said, when a trigger is pulled, “the aftermath is the same.”
https://www.redvoicemedia.com/2022/05/s ... nts-video/

[DeCav]

Interesting thread.

[DeCav]

I'm kind of surprised that any bullying still happens in this country. Especially in Texas where the ruling party is well known for the recent hashtag #F***YOURFEELINGS. You'd think kids in Texas would be nicer to each other. I guess all those bullies probably had kind, loving parents who turned their backs on the #F***YOURFEELINGS movement.

Seriously though, most people seem to agree that bad parenting is the reason stuff like this happens. There's probably even a parent or two on this message board who's posted #F***YOURFEELINGS on social media more than once in the last few years. I have to wonder what these people imagine the repercussions of these kinds of decisions will have on their children's attitudes towards other people and whether they believe it's a constructive or destructive behavior to model.

[DeCav]

Hmmm...

I don't generally let myself get caught up in gun rights debates. People are just too dug in.

But I like DF's angle on the discussion which seems mostly to be "We have to do SOMETHING."

Obviously, that something would have to be an idea that all but the most zealous gun nuts could agree on.

It seems to me that there is the LEAST some people could do to help without risking a change to gun legislation or spending a dime on mental health. I'm not even talking about PSA's or marketed helplines for bullied, nihilistic kids who might be about to explode (which seems like something a sensible government might do btw.)

How about we just try and curb the glorification of guns? Is that too much to ask?

Maybe no more Christmas cards with every member of the family posing in front of a Christmas tree with ridiculous-looking weapons like it's a John Rambo downhome Christmas?

I mean Jesus Christ! Literally! These are the EXACT same people who will simultaneously go on a rant about how people have forgotten the most important thing about Christmas and the "Reason for the season".

Look what these families consider the centerpiece of their Christmas experience...

















I could keep posting these but there isn't actually an end to them on Google.

My question is this: Exactly how many degrees are there between those pics and the one below?




Then the question is, "As a Christian, do you find the image of Jesus holding a rifle offensive in any way?"

If the answer is yes, then why not at least speak out against it? It's not like pro-gun people are afraid of what people think of them. Or are they?

Because it's my belief that any reasonable person that isn't in an absolute fever dream of gun ecstasy (Def: an emotional or religious frenzy or trance-like state, originally one involving an experience of mystic self-transcendence) would reject images of Christ holding guns and would be turned off by all these Christmas cards with guns as the centerpiece. What if these families were posing with aborted fetuses? They'd never do that because they'll do anything to protect the unborn child. But to quote Carlin, "...once you're born you're on your own. If your pre-born you're fine, if you're pre-school you're fkd."

If the pro-gun/pro-life group could just do as much to save the kids as they do to make sure the children even have a chance to be born.

Oh wait. 99.9% of outspoken pro-life advocates consider themselves warriors for the unborn child because they've been going to a polling center once every 4 years for the last 50 years and pulling a lever for a politician. An act of sacrifice that requires about 30 minutes of their time. God bless them! I'm sure all the legally aborted fetuses for the last 50 years are looking down from Heaven with sublime gratitude for their passionate work to prevent the very act that put them there in the clouds.

It's been my personal experience that a lot of these passionate advocates actually have a sense of what is right and wrong that seems to map quite accurately over my own sense of right and wrong. Some of these people though are chicken shits of the highest order. Why do I say this? Too many private conversations with them where they drop the act and actually do speak truth to power (but only privately because God knows if they shared these thoughts on FB, their tribe would come after them with emojis of pitchforks and torches (of the Tiki variety, of course!)

Examples?

In a late-night texted conversation with 1st and Goal, he told me he was offended by the former President having peppered peaceful protestors in order for him to walk to a church so that he could pose for a picture holding the Bible upside down. He also said matter-of-factly, "Hell, everyone knows he ain't no Christian!"

"So you knowingly voted for a Republican who is about as spiritually bankrupt as they come?"

"Well it ain't for me to say whether someone is a Christian or not."

"Except that you just indicated that at the very least you yourself know he's not a believer."

No answer.

Did this person ever espouse this nuanced view on his FB page? Hell no! I can say that because he's a FB friend of mine and I get his posts on my feed. God help him if he ever decided to actually post such opinions. We have all seen what happens to anyone who questions ANYTHING about the former President. Liz Cheney had a significantly more pro-Trump voting record than the person who replaced her. But she stepped out of line with respect to the strict code of loyalty that has gripped her tribe. Mitch McConnel is the most gangsta conservative I've ever seen (who actually gets anything done). Holding the SCOTUS seat open for more than half a year during Obama's presidency so that Trump could fill the seat and tip the balance. And then when RBG died, he reversed engines, flipped his argument, and got a third SCOTUS appointed just before Biden took office.

Literally, he is THE reason why any Christian is currently feeling more hope than ever that RvW might be overturned. In 50 years, it's the closest this country has been to outlawing abortion but the one politician who engineered it his now hated by the very people he was serving. Not because of a scandal. Just because he didn't tow 100% of the line and dared say anything that his base considered an affront to their opinion of the former President.

I'll say this: Hypothetically, it could have come out that McConnel had once paid for an abortion to cover up an affair he once had and he would have been forgiven by his base. But saying the election wasn't rigged or that Trump had anything to do with Jan 6th is just a bridge TOO far.

Does this REALLY make any sense to anyone? Seriously? What is the arc here? What's the plan with this? Do you want to the GOP to have more power and influence over policy? Or do these people just want a balls-out spectacle regardless of the actual real-world political consequences?

But I digress.

More examples? In another late-night text conversation with John64 (another Rebel), the things he was actually texting me were so "interesting" that when I suggested I copy and paste it to my FB wall he threatened me about going public with his beliefs.

I have had the former President described to me by two-time Trump voters that he was an asshole, a bully, a monster, an apostate, and a "toxic leader". Not from one voter. Those comments are culled from 3 different people. But only uttered when they were sure no one else was listening. It's worse than someone who's possessed with an ideology. These people seem to be indicating that deep down they are truly conflicted to some degree. Not sure why anyone is saying one thing publicly and a different thing privately. It's a sign that perhaps that they are not truly integrated from top to bottom.

Go read my FB page and then have a private conversation with me. I guarantee you'll find zero discrepancies between the two. The person I am in public is the person I am in private. I seriously believe that if more people were like DFOLD, 50% of our problems would go away. Why?

Because he's nuanced and he isn't afraid to speak his mind.

Let's call balls and strikes here and drop the axiomatic ideologies. Seriously. People so often get caught up in the question, "Do I take a left or do I take a right?". It's as if they've dead-ended at an intellectual T-intersection and directly across from them is a cornfield or something.

Let's say one direction is zero degrees on a protractor. And the other direction is 180 degrees. Guess what I discovered late in life and still have to remind myself of from time to time. Between a 90-degree left and a 90-degree right is actually 180 degrees of freedom you have to plot your belief system. It's called compromise. It's probably the single most important reason that we ever became civilized as a species. It's the only thing that keeps us from devolving into tribal warfare and we are losing the ability or at least the will to keep doing it.

I have a theory. If every single person in the country posted on social media what they REALLY say or think when they think no one is watching, we might resolve a good chunk of the shit we keep bitching at each other about. Now obviously what some people think and what some people say is perfectly integrated even if it seems dispicable. I have more respect for those supporters than I do the ones who are thinking one thing and saying a different thing.

Anyway,

This was just going to be a short post suggesting that maybe we all get together and agree on the LEAST thing that could be done.

Does it seem that this over-the-top almost "gun-porn" is something we could agree isn't helping?

Probably wouldn't save a single innocent life if it ended but it's definitely part of the solution.

None of us would EVER think of even posting a picture of a pistol, much less a rifle on this site. Why is that? Of course, I realize I've just posted more gun pics than was ever posted on PFT or SCPrep combined. But I guess I'll let it stand as a possible point. If the pics are removed by the admins, or I'm censored in any way it will say a LOT about how mixed up our priorities are that it's only offensive on an obscure high school sports site where let's face it, only student-athletes might be following...one group of teenagers who are almost guaranteed never to shoot up a school.

But some of the same people who would decry these images on a high school-centered site would have no compunction whatsoever about posting even more heinous images on their own FB page where kids of all ages and cliques can soak it up.

Interestingly enough, the NRA does not advertise on television and neither do ammunition or gun manufacturers.

Why would they need to?????

Right-wing politicians are all too happy to run the commercials for them. Maybe we don't vote for any politician who feels it necessary to run ads where they're shooting at stupid bullshit so that people will vote for them? It's not enough for a politician to simply say they'll fight for gun owners rights?

I just think before America needs to really get under the hood on this situation and start enacting legislation or increasing funding for mental health or even spending a dime on the situation, we could start with some free cosmetic work to the vehicle?

DFOLD, there's my humble suggestion. Maybe people just stop with the gun porn? I'm not talking about stepping on anyone's 1st amendment rights either. As Jordan Peterson says, "Let it ALL be heard so that the objectionable views can be heard AND REJECTED."

Is anyone's 1st amendment rights being compromised by the fact that using the N-word is social suicide?

Nope. It's a sign that our 1st amendment system is working exactly as it should.

It seems a shame to me that some people can't defend their 2nd amendment rights without resorting to looking like a complete clown.

So there are my thoughts. No new gun laws. No tax money going to more mental health or more cops stationed at soft targets. Just a little social pressure from the right to throttle back and bit and pull out of this dive to the bottom to see who can post the most offensive pro-gun images and videos?

Sadly, this will anger someone and be something they'd never in a million years consider doing. Even if they'd never in a million years do it themselves.

One irony that just occurred to me. I've been told unequivocally that porn kills. So NO boobies on your FB page!!! But guns? Have at it!!!



...for now.

Peace and Love to you all and thank God we have a place like this where we can have a civil discussion. Disagreements and compromises. The sharing of ideas and willingness to listen to each other are the only ways we can move forward and end the madness....I think.

DeCav

[DeCav]

I thought this was a pretty good read....

"I don’t own a gun. I never have. Why?

First of all I don’t hunt. I have nothing against hunting. (After all, I’m not a vegetarian.) I don’t hunt like I don’t golf—it’s just something I never took up. So I don’t own a shotgun or a hunting rifle for the same reason I don’t own golf clubs. And for the same reason you probably don’t own crampons and an ice axe. Since I don’t hunt, I don’t need the equipment.

Secondly, I don’t own a gun because I don’t want to shoot anyone. Shotguns and hunting rifles are designed for the purpose of shooting game. Handguns and assault rifles are designed for the purpose of shooting people. But I don’t want to shoot anyone. So, once again, I don’t need the equipment. I’m perfectly content to allow a trained and authorized police force to handle this equipment on behalf of society. I think that’s a good idea. (If you don’t think that’s a good idea, well, then we just disagree. Don’t shoot me.) I’m not a police officer, so I don’t need police equipment. I don’t own surgical equipment either, because…well, you get my point.

Can you come up with an imagined scenario where I would wish I had a gun? Probably. Can I come up with an imagined scenario where you wish you did notown a gun? Just as easily. (And my imagined scenario turns out to be a whole lot more common in real life!)

So I don’t own a gun. What about protecting my family? Well, I’ve been married for 32 years and a parent for 31 years, and my family has remained safe. To be honest with you, home invasion is something I never think about or worry about. Am I “prepared” for it? I don’t know. I trust God and pray for protection everyday. Does that count? I don’t even have a baseball bat. (I quit playing baseball years ago.) I suppose my ice axe could be used as a weapon, but it’s in the basement with the rest of my mountain gear…because that’s it’s purpose, to climb mountains, not to be (mis)used as a weapon.

So it turns out I have no weapons. I’m unprepared for a home invasion. Of course there are endless possibilities of things for which I am unprepared. I was unprepared for my grandson to get cancer, but he did…and we made it through that. If my home gets invaded tonight, I’ll just have to trust God. Am I a fool? I don’t think so. But if so, I’m a fool for Christ. Because, though I haven’t mentioned it yet, my commitment to following Jesus is part of my decision to live without owning lethal weapons. Do you have to agree with my convictions? No. But you should respect them. Of course, someone will remind me of Peter carrying a sword (at least on one occasion). Well…I have a sword. I keep it in what I call my “closet of weird things.” I’ve used it as a sermon prop on a few occasions. Oh, and I just remembered, I also have the jawbone of a donkey. (Kept alongside the sword in the aforementioned closet.) So perhaps I’m armed after all, but only archaically so.

Ultimately I choose to live without guns because, a) I don’t hunt, b) I’m not a police officer, c) I choose to live gently in a violent world. I choose not to help swell the ranks of the armed in our society. I want to contribute to a more peaceable and gentle society. Does that mean I’m unsafe? No, I don’t think so. But if I am unsafe, well, then I choose to be unsafe. Nevertheless, I’m not afraid. And I’m not ashamed to live unarmed. Does that make me less of a man? Oh, please. That argument makes me think someone is compensating for some insecurity. My father, Judge Zahnd, never owned a gun and he’s among the men I admire most. I’m sure that has influenced me. A good influence, I think.

I’ve had guns pointed at me on two occasions. Once in Haiti and once in Nigeria. I didn’t like having a gun pointed at me. It’s an uncomfortable feeling. But that doesn’t mean I want to be prepared to point a gun at someone else. I am intentionally, deliberately, thoughtfully unprepared to do that. My defense will have to come from elsewhere. Or not at all. Life is risky. I accept that. Following Jesus is riskier still. I accept that as well.

I’m not writing this to change the mind of Christian gun advocates. (I have a realistic assessment of my persuasive abilities.) I’m writing this in the moderate hope that Christians gun enthusiasts will at the very least respect their brothers and sisters who don’t share their enthusiasm. Neither is this a piece on gun control. I have some strongly held opinions on gun control—opinions that I formed 35 years ago while debating this topic in college—but this isn’t about that. This is simply a little blog on why I don’t own a gun. I don’t own a gun because I don’t need one and I don’t want one. And that is perfectly acceptable. Please try to be at peace with this. As I said, I don’t own golf clubs either, and that’s bound to upset some people too.

Unarmed, Unafraid, Unashamed,

BZ"

Pretty much sums up how I feel except for the golf part. I'll come to your house and shoot your guns maybe one day but if you have a driving range and a set of clubs, I'll be there tomorrow.