New 5A Playoffs

[DFOLDMAN]

With 5A implementing "The Tommy Knotts Rule", how are 5A I and 5A II going to divide for playoffs? Will it still be Upper State and Lower State brackets or some type hybrid?

Fear The Fox...

[Rebel-Fan-74]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11072

[DFOLDMAN]

Thank you. Must have over-looked this before or forgot it intentionally as it is so convoluted. SCHSL...come on folks. With no more teams than SC has, 5 classes with roughly 45-48 teams in each class...the way it was seemed fine to most folks. Having a state champion from a total pool of 26 or 28 is asinine. I know I sound like a homer, but to me, it smells of old SC powers (say, Summerville and others) being mad at the fact that they can't at least play for a title once in a blue moon. Playoffs are participation trophies now. I hear the argument about the need for additional "gates"...just add a regular season game. Everyone is basically playing 11 games anyway as it is now. The last 3 seasons DF has outscored their first round opponents 168-7. What purpose does that serve. The COVID shortened 2020 season did it right...4 rounds of playoffs. The region winner and runner-up. The playoffs should be for the best teams, not just teams.

These last 8 seasons proved what I said when Knotts came to DF...and all the SC homer naysayers chirping that he couldn't replicate his NC success because the SC competition is "too tough". NC is a much larger state. Knotts himself said it was tougher in NC because he would usually run into better teams earlier in the playoffs than in SC, and I believe their playoffs are even longer if you can believe that. But back to my point...26-28 team champion is about like SCISA. Why on earth did they do this?....I'm probably going to stick to line about it being Summerville whining long enough and hard enough to SCHSL...haha....I'm sure they were thinking DF would be in the smaller 5A class....hahaha WRONG. Nothing better than stomping a mudhole in the 'ville.

Fear The Fox....

[Ddub14]

Thank you. Must have over-looked this before or forgot it intentionally as it is so convoluted. SCHSL...come on folks. With no more teams than SC has, 5 classes with roughly 45-48 teams in each class...the way it was seemed fine to most folks. Having a state champion from a total pool of 26 or 28 is asinine. I know I sound like a homer, but to me, it smells of old SC powers (say, Summerville and others) being mad at the fact that they can't at least play for a title once in a blue moon. Playoffs are participation trophies now. I hear the argument about the need for additional "gates"...just add a regular season game. Everyone is basically playing 11 games anyway as it is now. The last 3 seasons DF has outscored their first round opponents 168-7. What purpose does that serve. The COVID shortened 2020 season did it right...4 rounds of playoffs. The region winner and runner-up. The playoffs should be for the best teams, not just teams.

These last 8 seasons proved what I said when Knotts came to DF...and all the SC homer naysayers chirping that he couldn't replicate his NC success because the SC competition is "too tough". NC is a much larger state. Knotts himself said it was tougher in NC because he would usually run into better teams earlier in the playoffs than in SC, and I believe their playoffs are even longer if you can believe that. But back to my point...26-28 team champion is about like SCISA. Why on earth did they do this?....I'm probably going to stick to line about it being Summerville whining long enough and hard enough to SCHSL...haha....I'm sure they were thinking DF would be in the smaller 5A class....hahaha WRONG. Nothing better than stomping a mudhole in the 'ville.

Fear The Fox....

I think I agreed with this in an earlier post.
202 public schools
4 50 team divisions
But the schsl wants 2 extra divisions and 2 extra state championship games just as a money grab. Notice they still don’t offer a one ticket all games option like it used to be.
Also 4a has 52 teams while 3a has 33 teams including one that doesn’t play football. So tell me what’s fair about that.
One is stacked the other is watered down . Plus is it automatic that all the 3a teams get in the playoffs. Might as well be the old Big 16. It’s not hard to figure out.

[DFOLDMAN]

Thank you. Must have over-looked this before or forgot it intentionally as it is so convoluted. SCHSL...come on folks. With no more teams than SC has, 5 classes with roughly 45-48 teams in each class...the way it was seemed fine to most folks. Having a state champion from a total pool of 26 or 28 is asinine. I know I sound like a homer, but to me, it smells of old SC powers (say, Summerville and others) being mad at the fact that they can't at least play for a title once in a blue moon. Playoffs are participation trophies now. I hear the argument about the need for additional "gates"...just add a regular season game. Everyone is basically playing 11 games anyway as it is now. The last 3 seasons DF has outscored their first round opponents 168-7. What purpose does that serve. The COVID shortened 2020 season did it right...4 rounds of playoffs. The region winner and runner-up. The playoffs should be for the best teams, not just teams.

These last 8 seasons proved what I said when Knotts came to DF...and all the SC homer naysayers chirping that he couldn't replicate his NC success because the SC competition is "too tough". NC is a much larger state. Knotts himself said it was tougher in NC because he would usually run into better teams earlier in the playoffs than in SC, and I believe their playoffs are even longer if you can believe that. But back to my point...26-28 team champion is about like SCISA. Why on earth did they do this?....I'm probably going to stick to line about it being Summerville whining long enough and hard enough to SCHSL...haha....I'm sure they were thinking DF would be in the smaller 5A class....hahaha WRONG. Nothing better than stomping a mudhole in the 'ville.

Fear The Fox....

I think I agreed with this in an earlier post.
202 public schools
4 50 team divisions
But the schsl wants 2 extra divisions and 2 extra state championship games just as a money grab. Notice they still don’t offer a one ticket all games option like it used to be.
Also 4a has 52 teams while 3a has 33 teams including one that doesn’t play football. So tell me what’s fair about that.
One is stacked the other is watered down . Plus is it automatic that all the 3a teams get in the playoffs. Might as well be the old Big 16. It’s not hard to figure out.

EXACTLY... 4 or 5 classifications... 40-50 teams....if the Pickens County contingent can figure that out, why can't all the smart people in Columbia?

Fear The Fox...

[bringthewood]

Thank you. Must have over-looked this before or forgot it intentionally as it is so convoluted. SCHSL...come on folks. With no more teams than SC has, 5 classes with roughly 45-48 teams in each class...the way it was seemed fine to most folks. Having a state champion from a total pool of 26 or 28 is asinine. I know I sound like a homer, but to me, it smells of old SC powers (say, Summerville and others) being mad at the fact that they can't at least play for a title once in a blue moon. Playoffs are participation trophies now. I hear the argument about the need for additional "gates"...just add a regular season game. Everyone is basically playing 11 games anyway as it is now. The last 3 seasons DF has outscored their first round opponents 168-7. What purpose does that serve. The COVID shortened 2020 season did it right...4 rounds of playoffs. The region winner and runner-up. The playoffs should be for the best teams, not just teams.

These last 8 seasons proved what I said when Knotts came to DF...and all the SC homer naysayers chirping that he couldn't replicate his NC success because the SC competition is "too tough". NC is a much larger state. Knotts himself said it was tougher in NC because he would usually run into better teams earlier in the playoffs than in SC, and I believe their playoffs are even longer if you can believe that. But back to my point...26-28 team champion is about like SCISA. Why on earth did they do this?....I'm probably going to stick to line about it being Summerville whining long enough and hard enough to SCHSL...haha....I'm sure they were thinking DF would be in the smaller 5A class....hahaha WRONG. Nothing better than stomping a mudhole in the 'ville.

Fear The Fox....

I think I agreed with this in an earlier post.
202 public schools
4 50 team divisions
But the schsl wants 2 extra divisions and 2 extra state championship games just as a money grab. Notice they still don’t offer a one ticket all games option like it used to be.
Also 4a has 52 teams while 3a has 33 teams including one that doesn’t play football. So tell me what’s fair about that.
One is stacked the other is watered down . Plus is it automatic that all the 3a teams get in the playoffs. Might as well be the old Big 16. It’s not hard to figure out.

It's not a money grab, the ADs and HFC decide this.

[Rebel-Fan-74]

There will never be a system without it's flaws and we all know that...

However, this is about the craziest thing I've witnessed out of the SCHSL. Now the actual playoffs are not the SCHSL, that is on the coaches and athletic directors; but that realignment is all the HSL. Were they drunk when they came up with the way they lumped over a third of the schools in one division?

The 5A plan still has some postseason-related questions to answer for certain sports. For most sports’ playoffs, there will be 12 teams each in Class 5A Division I’s Upper and Lower playoff brackets, and 12 in each of the two 5A Division II brackets.

Automatic qualifiers for the playoffs would be the top three teams from a six-team region, and the top four from a seven- or eight-team region.

Region champions will be seeded first followed by second-, third- and fourth-place finishers. The automatic qualifiers would be seeded using the MaxPreps RPI formula, which North Carolina and other states use. Each team would enter the results of regular-season games into MaxPreps website, and the RPI is calculated based the team’s winning percentage and opponents’ winning percentage. Margin of victory isn’t used in calculating the RPI.

All non-automatic qualifiers would make up the rest of the bracket based on MaxPreps’ RPI standings.

There will be no predetermined home and away teams in the playoff bracket. The highest seed will host throughout. Because of the seeding criteria, region teams could face each other in the first round.

Sounds like the government doesn't it?

Here is my favorite: Of the 54 schools, 48 would qualify for the playoffs. Are you kidding me!!! That is 89% of the teams in the playoffs... why not just go ahead and add the other six teams?

And letting MAXPREPS determine the seeding... and you guys thought the point system from before was hard to figure out. NO ONE will know the seeding process because MAXPREPS will consider that proprietary information and only give you this explanation: {From their website}

State Computer Rankings

Computer rankings are based on results with no prediction or projection involved.

MaxPreps does not poll coaches, sportswriters or fans. Nor does our staff make any judgments on the merits of any individual team. Prior season history, school size and comments on message boards are not considered in the MaxPreps Computer Rankings.

The system utilizes the huge number of game results stored in the MaxPreps database. Generally, the more a team wins, the higher the ranking. However, the system takes into account quality wins (against other highly ranked opponents) and strength of schedule.

For example, a team's ranking is hurt more by losing to a team that is ranked below them than a team ranked ahead.

Other factors that will affect the rankings are times when MaxPreps has incomplete or inaccurate information. We will correct errors when they are reported to us. If we are missing a score, report it to us on the team's MaxPreps page. If we are missing a game on the schedule, send us a correction request.

Playoff wins are weighted higher than regular season games.

Movement indicates the up or down movement within the rankings when compared to our previously published rankings.

More on the state football rankings

Assume the following starting ratings:

- Team A's rating is 10
- Team B's rating is 0
- Team C's rating is -5
- Team D's rating is -8
- Team E's rating is -10

The program systematically sorts through all the results for the season (season-to-date results for an in-progress season). It takes each result and compares it to what "should" have happened given the ratings of the teams. It knows that if A played C, A should have handled them fairly easily. If A lost that game, or even squeaked by with a narrow victory, its rating is hurt, while C's is helped.

The system keeps checking through all the results for every team. Sticking with team A, if it played D and won by 15 (that's about what they should have done, no real impact on either teams' rating there), demolished team B by 22 (which definitely helps their rating), and beat D by 10 (not doing quite as well as could have been expected, another "ding" against their rating.)

When all is said and done, it takes the aggregate of how much better or worse they did than expected in all their games, divides that by the number of games played and adjusts their rating accordingly. For example, if they averaged performing two points worse than expected, their rating drops from a 10 to an 8. (Please note: this is definitely over-simplified; it isn't this straight-forward-mathematical. Points aren't everything by any means – the win or the loss is always the most important thing, even when margins are used. There is a "diminishing returns" principle at play so as to not fully credit a team for blowing out a weak opponent. In addition to the cutoff point past which margins are not counted, there is a "win minimum" as well a maximum – a number which no win is credited as being below...because, of course, a one point win isn't just barely better than a one point loss. Far from it.). All teams are adjusted similarly, and then we start over from the beginning with the new ratings – A is now an 8 and expected to perform accordingly, etc. This is done repeatedly until there is no longer any movement in the ratings, and they settle in where they "should" be.

Remember when we asked you to hold that thought on how they got to the point they started at? They didn't start there actually. All teams start at 0. There is no bias at all – last year's stats or preseason projections are not used as a starting point (again, see the one exception above). Everybody starts at 0 and the ratings run continuously until the movement stops.

When run without margins, the process is the same, but the margin of victory is not considered. A win is a win, and all wins are counted at the same level. Therefore, the examples of getting your rating "dinged" because of a closer-than-expected win do not apply. All that matters is the win (and who you played).

[bringthewood]

and nobody protests, but those on this board.....

says it all

[Blister]

If coaches and ADs are behind it, this is just so no matter how bad of a program one has they can say at the end of the year that they were a playoff team like they have actually accomplished something. Just about everybody was getting in anyway, but the new plan seems to cover everybody.