OTS Sports Network Statewide Poll: Week 9

[FootballFan4343]

Just for fun I looked at player rankings for class of 2016-2019 on 247sports and looked at player rankings and which school they went to and here is what I found.


-Fort Dorchester has the most ranked players of any 4A team with 3 ranked players.
-Hilton Head has the most ranked players in 3A (and more than any classification) with 5
-Lake Marion has the most ranked players in 2A with 3
-All three teams are undefeated at the moment
-Byrnes, Northwestern, Spartanburg and Dorman all only have 1 player ranked

You also failed to mention they only rank 11 players for class of 2017, 5 for 2018, and zero for 2019.
Also, take note when it comes to rankings is they ONLY rank players that will qualify. So guys like Micah Young (Byrnes QB) and Traevon Hinton (NW LB) are not ranked. Yet, both of them are one of the best at their position in the state. That is the point I am trying to make. Byrnes and NW have GREAT players at every position, yes the coaches help that, but these guys are great. Its their HIGH school performance. If a kid doesn't have the grades to get to the next level then they face a huge uphill battle of making the NFL, even if they have the potential. Take a look at Kentrell Jones from Gaffney. VERY few people would argue that he was one of, if not THE BEST, High School Football player this state has ever seen. However, guy couldn't get into school and never went to college. He threw all over NW cornerback Derek Ross in the 1997 state championship. The same Derek Ross that played at Ohio State, was a 3rd round pick of the Cowboys, and finished 2nd to Julius Peppers for NFC defensive rookie of the year. Most would stack Jones up against any QB this state has seen. Golson, Worley, Bentley, Rudolph, whomever.
When determining High School talent, it has to be what they did during High school. Anyone can blow up in college and make it to the NFL.
In the case of the Fort D guys, they were great high school players as well. But those three don't make the overall players at Fort D better than Byrnes or NW.

I chose 2016-2019 because those are the players that are at the actual schools right now so it was relevant.


Traevon Hinton is on 247sports, but he's not ranked. Looks like he has been offered by Appalachan State, Towson, and Marshall. Rivals has him as a 2-star. (Fort Dorchester's John Simpson is a 4-star on Rivals and has offers from 11 schools including Alabama, Florida, LSU, Georgia, Tennessee, Clemson and South Carolina.)

I couldn't find much on Micah Young besides a few articles here and there, I found an article from last month that said the senior is hoping to get his first offer, but that he's been talking to Charleston Southern, North Greenville and Wingate. (Fort Dorchester's sophomore QB Dakareon Joyner already has offers from Georgia, Clemson, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Tennessee and has been talking to Auburn, UNC and Ohio State)

So again, I mean... I don't know what you want me to say. I'm not saying kids from Byrnes or Northwestern suck, and countless times I have complimented the teams and the success they have had the past decade. I have also said I'd bet on either team to beat Fort Dorchester should they meet....but as far as who has better players...I'm still going with Fort Dorchester.

Really? You are still going to say Fort Dorchester has better players than, lets just stick with Byrnes (since the numbers are overwhelming). 23 ranked players for the Rebels vs. 3 for Fort D over the same period? Really? 23 to 3?? Again, yes those three players have made it to the league and all three are doing very well. But thats 3 in a 10 year span. Thats the only 3 that have been ranked in recruiting. We will have to agree to disagree. I respect your commitment to your stance, but the numbers are not in your favor
As for Hinton and Young, its my understanding that both of their recruiting is struggling mightily due to the qualifying scenario. Which is even tougher for Young since most teams only take one QB, they are unlikely to offer unless for sure he will qualify. Both of those guys are great players. I hope they can make it to the next level.

One of the distinctions that you have to make is that there are great players in high school, and there are also those players in high school that look to project to be great players at the next level. Those are sometimes not the same players. You can be a great high school QB at 5-11 180 lbs. I have seen many. However, you will not project to the next level. Likewise, i have seen many 6-3 220 lb QBs get D1 offers with poor stats and win records in High School. So, D1 status is not necessarily indicative of performance in HS.

That being said, Ft. Dorchester looks to have a great team this year. Would be a tough game for my Rebels.I wouldn't "guarantee" a win against any of the top 10 at this point. Again, lots of parity.

This is the point I have been trying to get across. Byrnes and Northwestern have had better overall High School players over the last ten years than Fort Dorchester. Fort D, on the other hand, has had the 3 of the best to perform at the next level. Overall however, I will continue to believe that Byrnes and NW have better overall players. Coaches and tradition cannot account for lopsided records between those two and Fort D. Fort D plays a weaker schedule and still only averaged a 7-5 record in the stretch with one semi-final berth as the shining moment. Byrnes has 6 state championship appearances and 4 state titles while averaging a 12-2 record. NW has 5 state championship appearances and 2 titles while enjoying an average 11-3 record.

[2002Patriot]

Just for fun I looked at player rankings for class of 2016-2019 on 247sports and looked at player rankings and which school they went to and here is what I found.


-Fort Dorchester has the most ranked players of any 4A team with 3 ranked players.
-Hilton Head has the most ranked players in 3A (and more than any classification) with 5
-Lake Marion has the most ranked players in 2A with 3
-All three teams are undefeated at the moment
-Byrnes, Northwestern, Spartanburg and Dorman all only have 1 player ranked

You also failed to mention they only rank 11 players for class of 2017, 5 for 2018, and zero for 2019.
Also, take note when it comes to rankings is they ONLY rank players that will qualify. So guys like Micah Young (Byrnes QB) and Traevon Hinton (NW LB) are not ranked. Yet, both of them are one of the best at their position in the state. That is the point I am trying to make. Byrnes and NW have GREAT players at every position, yes the coaches help that, but these guys are great. Its their HIGH school performance. If a kid doesn't have the grades to get to the next level then they face a huge uphill battle of making the NFL, even if they have the potential. Take a look at Kentrell Jones from Gaffney. VERY few people would argue that he was one of, if not THE BEST, High School Football player this state has ever seen. However, guy couldn't get into school and never went to college. He threw all over NW cornerback Derek Ross in the 1997 state championship. The same Derek Ross that played at Ohio State, was a 3rd round pick of the Cowboys, and finished 2nd to Julius Peppers for NFC defensive rookie of the year. Most would stack Jones up against any QB this state has seen. Golson, Worley, Bentley, Rudolph, whomever.
When determining High School talent, it has to be what they did during High school. Anyone can blow up in college and make it to the NFL.
In the case of the Fort D guys, they were great high school players as well. But those three don't make the overall players at Fort D better than Byrnes or NW.

I chose 2016-2019 because those are the players that are at the actual schools right now so it was relevant.


Traevon Hinton is on 247sports, but he's not ranked. Looks like he has been offered by Appalachan State, Towson, and Marshall. Rivals has him as a 2-star. (Fort Dorchester's John Simpson is a 4-star on Rivals and has offers from 11 schools including Alabama, Florida, LSU, Georgia, Tennessee, Clemson and South Carolina.)

I couldn't find much on Micah Young besides a few articles here and there, I found an article from last month that said the senior is hoping to get his first offer, but that he's been talking to Charleston Southern, North Greenville and Wingate. (Fort Dorchester's sophomore QB Dakareon Joyner already has offers from Georgia, Clemson, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Tennessee and has been talking to Auburn, UNC and Ohio State)

So again, I mean... I don't know what you want me to say. I'm not saying kids from Byrnes or Northwestern suck, and countless times I have complimented the teams and the success they have had the past decade. I have also said I'd bet on either team to beat Fort Dorchester should they meet....but as far as who has better players...I'm still going with Fort Dorchester.

Really? You are still going to say Fort Dorchester has better players than, lets just stick with Byrnes (since the numbers are overwhelming). 23 ranked players for the Rebels vs. 3 for Fort D over the same period? Really? 23 to 3?? Again, yes those three players have made it to the league and all three are doing very well. But thats 3 in a 10 year span. Thats the only 3 that have been ranked in recruiting. We will have to agree to disagree. I respect your commitment to your stance, but the numbers are not in your favor
As for Hinton and Young, its my understanding that both of their recruiting is struggling mightily due to the qualifying scenario. Which is even tougher for Young since most teams only take one QB, they are unlikely to offer unless for sure he will qualify. Both of those guys are great players. I hope they can make it to the next level.

One of the distinctions that you have to make is that there are great players in high school, and there are also those players in high school that look to project to be great players at the next level. Those are sometimes not the same players. You can be a great high school QB at 5-11 180 lbs. I have seen many. However, you will not project to the next level. Likewise, i have seen many 6-3 220 lb QBs get D1 offers with poor stats and win records in High School. So, D1 status is not necessarily indicative of performance in HS.

That being said, Ft. Dorchester looks to have a great team this year. Would be a tough game for my Rebels.I wouldn't "guarantee" a win against any of the top 10 at this point. Again, lots of parity.

This is the point I have been trying to get across. Byrnes and Northwestern have had better overall High School players over the last ten years than Fort Dorchester. Fort D, on the other hand, has had the 3 of the best to perform at the next level. Overall however, I will continue to believe that Byrnes and NW have better overall players. Coaches and tradition cannot account for lopsided records between those two and Fort D. Fort D plays a weaker schedule and still only averaged a 7-5 record in the stretch with one semi-final berth as the shining moment. Byrnes has 6 state championship appearances and 4 state titles while averaging a 12-2 record. NW has 5 state championship appearances and 2 titles while enjoying an average 11-3 record.

Coaching can very well account for the lopsided records. I've said many time LaPrad has hurt the team and doesn't really adjust that well when things start to go south. Fort has talent (which you seem to not want to acknowledge at all) but if the coach doesn't recognize and help that talent then they won't succeed no matter how "easy" or "weak" the schedule is. LaPrad is a big liability at Fort and not just because of his coaching ability but also due to the fact he's already had to vacate wins because of playing kids that were ineligible and blaming the guidance councillors for the mixup when it was his fault for the mixup.

[dfactor26]

Again, lets use your argument over a few "high performing" players. Does Cal put out better players than Alabama? Cal put out Aaron Rodgers, the best QB in the NFL. QB is the most important position in football and he is the best QB on arguably the best NFL team. So using what Rodgers has accomplished in the NFL (after Cal), we should say that Cal has just as good, if not better players than Alabama. Right?

I'm not really sure why you would pick Cal for this argument since they are one of the top college programs as far as producing NFL talent along with LSU, Alabama and a handful of other teams, but ok we can compare if you want.


Both schools have alot of players in the league...25 from Cal and 37 from Alabama. I think it's worth pointing out that of the 37 players from Alabama 23 of them are starters, of the 25 players from Cal 19 are starters. So as far as starting players go Alabama only has a handful more than Cal.


Both teams have some big names...Besides having a top 5 QB in Rodgers, Cal also has a top 5 receiving leader in Keenan Allen, a top 5 rusher in Justin Forsett, one of the league leaders in sacks with Cameron Jordan, one of the best centers in the league in Alex Mack and don't forget about Marshawn Lynch.
Alabama has very good players too...probably the best receiver in the league with Julio Jones, and the best young receiver in the league in Amari Cooper. They have some solid RBs like Eddie Lacy, Mark Ingram and T.J. Yeldon, and alot of really good defenders like Marcell Dareus, Ha Ha Clinton-Dix and Dont'a Hightower.


Looking at the top players from each team (Aaron Rodgers for Cal and Julio Jones for Alabama) and the overall number of starters I think an argument could be made for both teams for having the best talent. Alabama has more players in the NFL and lots of solid contributors - but Cal has nearly the same amount of actual starters as Alabama and as you said have arguably the best player in the league in Aaron Rodgers. But Alabama had 3 pro-bowlers in 2014 (Julio Jones, Marcell Dareus, and C.J. Mosley) while Cal only had 2 pro-bowlers (Aaron Rodgers and Marshawn Lynch). All in all it's pretty even - Alabama has more total players and more pro-bowlers...Cal has about the same amount of starters and the best player in the league. A case could be made for either school in 2015 to say they had more talent than the other team.


I don't see how this relates to Fort vs Byrnes/Northwestern though. With Alabama/Cal both teams are relatively equal in not only total numbers but high end talent as well. With Byrnes/Northwestern you have alot of players selected for awards and who had high rankings but very few panned out in college and none panned out in the NFL - with Fort Dorchester they didn't have nearly the amount of recognition or rankings but had players who panned out in college and are now stars in the NFL. Again it's just comes down to how you perceive "better players". I'll take what Fort has produced in the past 10 years over anything Northwestern/Byrnes has produced the past 10 years.

[FootballFan4343]

Again, lets use your argument over a few "high performing" players. Does Cal put out better players than Alabama? Cal put out Aaron Rodgers, the best QB in the NFL. QB is the most important position in football and he is the best QB on arguably the best NFL team. So using what Rodgers has accomplished in the NFL (after Cal), we should say that Cal has just as good, if not better players than Alabama. Right?

I'm not really sure why you would pick Cal for this argument since they are one of the top college programs as far as producing NFL talent along with LSU, Alabama and a handful of other teams, but ok we can compare if you want.


Both schools have alot of players in the league...25 from Cal and 37 from Alabama. I think it's worth pointing out that of the 37 players from Alabama 23 of them are starters, of the 25 players from Cal 19 are starters. So as far as starting players go Alabama only has a handful more than Cal.


Both teams have some big names...Besides having a top 5 QB in Rodgers, Cal also has a top 5 receiving leader in Keenan Allen, a top 5 rusher in Justin Forsett, one of the league leaders in sacks with Cameron Jordan, one of the best centers in the league in Alex Mack and don't forget about Marshawn Lynch.
Alabama has very good players too...probably the best receiver in the league with Julio Jones, and the best young receiver in the league in Amari Cooper. They have some solid RBs like Eddie Lacy, Mark Ingram and T.J. Yeldon, and alot of really good defenders like Marcell Dareus, Ha Ha Clinton-Dix and Dont'a Hightower.


Looking at the top players from each team (Aaron Rodgers for Cal and Julio Jones for Alabama) and the overall number of starters I think an argument could be made for both teams for having the best talent. Alabama has more players in the NFL and lots of solid contributors - but Cal has nearly the same amount of actual starters as Alabama and as you said have arguably the best player in the league in Aaron Rodgers. But Alabama had 3 pro-bowlers in 2014 (Julio Jones, Marcell Dareus, and C.J. Mosley) while Cal only had 2 pro-bowlers (Aaron Rodgers and Marshawn Lynch). All in all it's pretty even - Alabama has more total players and more pro-bowlers...Cal has about the same amount of starters and the best player in the league. A case could be made for either school in 2015 to say they had more talent than the other team.


I don't see how this relates to Fort vs Byrnes/Northwestern though. With Alabama/Cal both teams are relatively equal in not only total numbers but high end talent as well. With Byrnes/Northwestern you have alot of players selected for awards and who had high rankings but very few panned out in college and none panned out in the NFL - with Fort Dorchester they didn't have nearly the amount of recognition or rankings but had players who panned out in college and are now stars in the NFL. Again it's just comes down to how you perceive "better players". I'll take what Fort has produced in the past 10 years over anything Northwestern/Byrnes has produced the past 10 years.

You perfectly answered my question. Cal is a team over the last 10 years that has not had anywhere NEAR the success Alabama has had, yet in your opinion you would say they have overall equal players due to their NFL total. I disagree, overall Alabama has better talent, hence the reason they win. Both Cal and Alabama have had players go to the next level with Alabama having an edge in total numbers, but Cal having the edge in terms of their "top players" boasting the league's best player. So while you are saying that Alabama and Cal have equal players, I wholeheartedly disagree. I don't weight production at the NEXT LEVEL as how you gauge their success. I look at what they do at that current level, and position by position, Alabama has overall better players.

Well, this is my last response on this because neither of us is going to budge here, and I respect that. But, again, its not about who "produces" at the next level, its about how players play. As someone who saw Kentrell Jones, Dupree Hart, and Carlos Dunlap play, I wouldn't rate Dunlap as any more dominating of a high school player than Jones or Hart. Each player could and did take over games. But you rate Dunlap as a better HIGH SCHOOL player because he went on to a stellar career in college and the NFL. I don't, thats the difference. So using your argument, Albert Haynesworth is one of the best high school football players this state has ever seen. Although most Hartsville fans will argue that isnt the case as the guy basically didnt play for a full two seasons, he shut it down midway through his junior year after the UT offer. However, your formula for the BEST HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL players is next level success, which Haynesworth enjoyed plenty of (ALL SEC, pro bowl, first round pick, and two MASSIVE contracts).
With that said, I am done, I am not going to respond to anything else because we obviously disagree 100 percent on how we define a High School Players success. You say it is based on their post HS performance, I say its based on their High School performance. Case Closed.
Seriously though i respect your opinion, just wholeheartedly disagree.

[BYRNES#1]

Look here is the bottom line..
If the Fort plays either Byrnes or NW they will get drug this year. Mark it down & put it in the bank.

[gamecocksfootball62]

I seriously see some of this poll as HOGWASH. Where is Seneca at on this list? I think they are worthy of being on the list. Some of you are asking why a Rebel fan would be imposing such. Well if your going to do a poll it needs to be more STATE WIDE and less HOMERISH. Seneca has probably the highest points scoring offense in the state. They beat a very good BHP team this past Friday night. I would put them in the poll instead of Greer. Greer is another common powerhouse name but look at Seneca and see that they might not be that powerhouse name, but they are that team that deserves some recognition.

[trojangrad78]

Sorry...I just couldn't read all the back-and-forths.

To me, each school has its share of good and GREAT players that may or may not play good or GREAT at either the college or professional levels.

Bottom line, it is a team sport and I enjoy watching NW's team perform at a very high level almost all of the time.

I am much more likely to go see a quality TEAM than an individual player.

As for this continued NW vs Byrnes vs Fort discussion, at the HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL, the bottom line is that Byrnes and NW have had better programs over the last 10-15 years than Fort D.

[gamecocksfootball62]

As far as the Byrnes thing we've been able to tap into something we haven't had in awhile OUR running game. It's a double edged sword either you're gonna try and stop the run or you're gonna try and stop the aerial assault. You can't do both if so you're going to be in for one long ball game. Plus Mags defense isn't getting half the credit that is due. The Rebels are ready to make that run. Now let's talk some FOOTBALL.

[dfactor26]

You perfectly answered my question. Cal is a team over the last 10 years that has not had anywhere NEAR the success Alabama has had, yet in your opinion you would say they have overall equal players due to their NFL total. I disagree, overall Alabama has better talent, hence the reason they win. Both Cal and Alabama have had players go to the next level with Alabama having an edge in total numbers, but Cal having the edge in terms of their "top players" boasting the league's best player. So while you are saying that Alabama and Cal have equal players, I wholeheartedly disagree. I don't weight production at the NEXT LEVEL as how you gauge their success. I look at what they do at that current level, and position by position, Alabama has overall better players.

Well, this is my last response on this because neither of us is going to budge here, and I respect that. But, again, its not about who "produces" at the next level, its about how players play. As someone who saw Kentrell Jones, Dupree Hart, and Carlos Dunlap play, I wouldn't rate Dunlap as any more dominating of a high school player than Jones or Hart. Each player could and did take over games. But you rate Dunlap as a better HIGH SCHOOL player because he went on to a stellar career in college and the NFL. I don't, thats the difference. So using your argument, Albert Haynesworth is one of the best high school football players this state has ever seen. Although most Hartsville fans will argue that isnt the case as the guy basically didnt play for a full two seasons, he shut it down midway through his junior year after the UT offer. However, your formula for the BEST HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL players is next level success, which Haynesworth enjoyed plenty of (ALL SEC, pro bowl, first round pick, and two MASSIVE contracts).
With that said, I am done, I am not going to respond to anything else because we obviously disagree 100 percent on how we define a High School Players success. You say it is based on their post HS performance, I say its based on their High School performance. Case Closed.
Seriously though i respect your opinion, just wholeheartedly disagree.

I understand your point, I do. The reason I look at post-high school success is because I think it's a better indicator of the actual player and not his surroundings...Carlos Dunlap was dominant in high school, he was dominant in college and is now a star in the NFL. Same story with Robert Quinn, AJ Green, ect. To me that is a body of work that definitively proves how great a player those guys are. I don't see that same body of work for many of these players to come out of programs like Byrnes and Northwestern. When I see 23 players ranked for Byrnes and almost none panning out I don't see Byrnes as having a glut of amazing players, I see it as a team that does amazing things with what they have. My honest and true opinion is that if you take the Byrnes or Northwestern coaching staff and put them in any 4A school in the state you will see the same results - state championships, high player/team rankings, shrine bowl selections, D1 offers, ect. I also think if you replaced the Byrnes coaching staff with what they have at the weaker schools in the state you'll see those schools diminish in more ways than just overall record. I don't underrate the importance of coaching and I know how important it is. Look what Reedy did as Goose Creek, look what Miller has done at Spartanburg, and Porter at Hillcrest. Look at Dutch Fork's record before Knotts got there and look at it after, he took a team that was averaging 5-6 wins a season to a team that averages 11 wins a season and has gone to 3 straight state championships. These are not coincidences, these schools did not suddenly start growing D1 prospects, Shrine Bowl athletes and great football players right when the new coach happened to come in. It's not like Duncan has an eternal spring of football greatness that they bathe every male baby in after he is born, the reason they have been dominant the past 15 years goes well beyond simply having good football players.

So in short no, I do not think Northwestern/Byrnes or any other traditionally dominant team in the state has better players than schools like Wando, West Ashley, or any of the other below average 4A schools in the state. I think most schools have just about the same amount of really good players walking through the halls, with a couple schools being fortunate to have some truly great and transcendent players come through...but besides Lattimore at Byrnes I just do not see Northwestern or Byrnes being one of those teams. They have put together something special in Duncan and in Rock Hill, but I don't think it has anything to do with the players.

[dfactor26]

Look here is the bottom line..
If the Fort plays either Byrnes or NW they will get drug this year. Mark it down & put it in the bank.

Lol ok, who here has denied that?