What do we do with the Oceanside/Gray etc.

[mrfootballtalk]

So here is the real data behind all this. First off school choice is here to stay. It's helps kids get out of lower performing schools into higher ones. Most of the schools that Gray is getting kids from are far better off at Gray then they are the old schools they were at. The good Charter schools are a better education in most cases. It is very easy to come on here and say this and that but if it was your son or daughter and they were in a crappy school or program you would move them to a better situation, ( if you say no I would not , Frankly your lying).

So now that we have established most parents would move their kids for a better education or program now we can address the issues. When Public school talk about recruiting it is laughable. First, off all school do it in some form or fashion. The big schools 4A and 5A are the biggest offenders. Dutch Fork , Wrenn , Greenville High, South Point etc all have multiple kids transfer in every year. Some bring in a new Qb every year from out of state. So this myth that its just charters or private is based on zero facts.

So the answer to solve this "problem" is pretty simple. Offer and similar or better education and programs and kids won't leave. If you can get the same meal , same quality or better down the road for a cheaper price then you go eat there. Also these programs aren't winning state champions in the main sports. They are mostly winning them in non major sports.

Moral of the Story -- Get better --

[Rebel-Fan-74]

So here is the real data behind all this. First off school choice is here to stay. It's helps kids get out of lower performing schools into higher ones. Most of the schools that Gray is getting kids from are far better off at Gray then they are the old schools they were at. The good Charter schools are a better education in most cases. It is very easy to come on here and say this and that but if it was your son or daughter and they were in a crappy school or program you would move them to a better situation, ( if you say no I would not , Frankly your lying).

This is not the question and never has been the question. Not one person has ever doubted or questioned the "education" issues. The only question is the athletics issues which are real issues in fairness...

So now that we have established most parents would move their kids for a better education or program now we can address the issues. When Public school talk about recruiting it is laughable. First, off all school do it in some form or fashion. The big schools 4A and 5A are the biggest offenders. Dutch Fork , Wrenn , Greenville High, South Point etc all have multiple kids transfer in every year. Some bring in a new Qb every year from out of state. So this myth that its just charters or private is based on zero facts.

People always talk about "transfers" being recruiting. Yet it is the exact same issue that you describe in your opening statement most of the time. If parents take their children to Gray/Oceanside etc you called that "move them to a better situation" yet if they do it in the public schools, you called that recruiting.... interesting, what is the difference?

[mrfootballtalk]

Actually , I don't think it is any different. Public to Public or vice versa. Would you rather have your son or daughter go to Berea or Byrnes, Dorman etc. My point is Gray, Ocean, Legion are schools that are sports factories and they make no bones about it. They have large rosters with legit D1 talent in some cases. But public schools recruit no different than charters. Byrnes, Dorman , Spartanburg swap players all the time. Frankly, who cares if the schools administration doesn't.

But to compare SSC, Christ and St Joe is a bit off in terms of Gray and Oceanside. Look at their rosters, upper 20's low 30's. They aren't littered with D1 talent and in most cases may have 1 kid every couple of years that goes FBS. If they had 50 plus guys and 3-5 D1 guys that would be a much better case. But they are out there with lower numbers and in most cases depth issues. They mostly are in regions with rural 2A schools that the town in crumbling along with their programs. That isn't their fault it's a demographic and economic issue. 96 and places like that are a mess because of those reason not the private schools.

[Onion Rings]

maybe classify by number of players

[mrfootballtalk]

The SCHSL can't even stop recruiting in public schools or should I say transferring for athletic purposes...it happens all the time...some kid want to play for a coach or at a more high file program...hell it may have happened at Gaffney this year with the Loftis kid...I'm not sure of the whole story of that move....

Wish there was a data based for kids that transferred that also played sports...

Gaffney plays Grey's this week so we will see how well they recruit...

As far as Loftis is concerned......Nobody should ever be questioned for transferring out of the dumpster fire that is Blue Ridge Football. Supposedly, he has college level talent. He probably want to be healthy when that time comes, and running for his life at BR lessened the chances of that.

As far as the Oceanside, Gray's, and Legions. Put them in their own classification. But the SCHSL doesn't have time for that. They are more worried about some kid celebrating after a sack.

See here is the fault with your argument. So Loftis is allowed to leave his program and "move" 50 miles to gaffney to play football. ( which I have zero problem with ) Do you think Gaffney just found out that he was coming to them when he walked in the door for summer workouts? he made a football move period. But in the same sentence want to put the charter's in their own league because they do the same things Gaffney just did. Can't have it both ways. It's either everyone has the same opportunity or nothing ( no transfers) ..

[Rebel-Fan-74]

See here is the fault with your argument. So Loftis is allowed to leave his program and "move" 50 miles to gaffney to play football. ( which I have zero problem with ) Do you think Gaffney just found out that he was coming to them when he walked in the door for summer workouts? he made a football move period.

My concerns are that all transfers are not for academic or athletic reasons. I moved from District Five to District Six in 2013 and back in 2020. Neither time was the move for either reasons. It was simply personal reasons that had nothing to do with school. I'm sure other people move (that are still young enough to have school aged children) for reasons that are totally unrelated to school. To try to understand and classify "transfers" is not as simple as folk imply. How many times have we heard "Well it is obvious they moved to get their son to play for _________!"

What if I think that Oceanside is a better school academically, and that athletics is just a bonus? How would anyone know that? On the other hand, how would I prove it?

This issue is not going away, I agree.... and even though it in not really part of the question, I agree with school choice. A parent should be able to send their child anywhere they want to send them for their education (again, as long as they pay for it and don't pass the costs to others). Here is what we have discussed in the thread and where we seem to stand:

Leave them where they are: Not fair that they get to openly recruit and can stack their teams with players and it is only going to get worse with time.

Make them play up a level/Make them all play at 5A: Then you punish teams that are not recruiting and you pass the "cheaters" on to others, not really settle the issue

Give them their own classification: They don't have enough teams to form their own classifications, can't fill a schedule, travel issues, etc.

[mrfootballtalk]

There isn't a good answer. To many variables and legit cases for transfers. Truth is Gray and Ocean are a different model than the private school models.

[SCSports91]

Actually , I don't think it is any different. Public to Public or vice versa. Would you rather have your son or daughter go to Berea or Byrnes, Dorman etc. My point is Gray, Ocean, Legion are schools that are sports factories and they make no bones about it. They have large rosters with legit D1 talent in some cases. But public schools recruit no different than charters. Byrnes, Dorman , Spartanburg swap players all the time. Frankly, who cares if the schools administration doesn't.

But to compare SSC, Christ and St Joe is a bit off in terms of Gray and Oceanside. Look at their rosters, upper 20's low 30's. They aren't littered with D1 talent and in most cases may have 1 kid every couple of years that goes FBS. If they had 50 plus guys and 3-5 D1 guys that would be a much better case. But they are out there with lower numbers and in most cases depth issues. They mostly are in regions with rural 2A schools that the town in crumbling along with their programs. That isn't their fault it's a demographic and economic issue. 96 and places like that are a mess because of those reason not the private schools.

Numbers aren't as different as you may think. Gray has 30 on its varsity roster. This includes 10 sophomores and freshman. 2 D1 commits both of which are four year starters.

[gyekaj]

One of the problems I see with this situation is the kid that is "recruited" as a Soph/Jr and then gets shafted because another recruit shows up the next season. This student cannot return to his original school since he would have to sit out a year in many cases. The private/charter schools can bring kids in and they do not have to sit out unless I am mistaken. Make them follow the same rules that the public schools follow or put them in SCISA.

[Statelinepanther]

Welp look no further than tonight. Gray played with 5A power Gaffney until the very end. I find it utterly ridiculous and unfair a team that can do that plays in 2A state playoffs. I've watched this garbage for years with these private schools dominating sports because of the number of true athletes they field vs small schools who are lucky to field just a few. I've actually quit watching high school sports because I detest having my small public school being stuck in a conference full of private schools. Only in SC.