What do we do with the Oceanside/Gray etc.

[SCSports91]

Creek- 1. 5 years ago Gray was a new school with no kids that had gone through the program for 4 years. They now have kids that come in as freshman and grow as better players. So that is how they have gotten better.
2. Head Coach Name is Holmes not Smith. 3. KZ Adams was a freshman 4 years ago and has been one of the top RBs in the state the past 4 years.
4. Yes Gray has a QB that played at batesburg as a soph. But they also have 7 guys playing both sides of the ball and have been in the program and varsity starters for 3/4 years. Gotta give those kids their credit.
5. Gray only has 30 players. 6. They have to follow the same exact transfer rules as a gaffney or abbeville or anyone. If a new kid comes from out of district (lex2) they have to make a move to be varsity eligible or they sit a year. And your recruiting pipeline statement is pretty baseless. Otherwise the roster would be 60 every year.

Rebel- agree with you on the defining "recruiting"- and your next statement holds for any school Because a kid wants to go to gray, abbeville, saluda, insert any school you want doesn't mean there is recruiting. You can't just assume a kid wouldnt want to go to a 2A school, he must have been recruited.

Im not trying to go back and forth arguing because people will believe what they want. Just wanted to give an opinion on the other side of things and hopefully that can be respected. But I do think you should base comments on truths not what you think is or isnt happening based off success. Last thing is a lot of these comments take away from the successes of kids.

[mrfootballtalk]

SCSports - You are correct. Their is a LOT of poor information and incorrect information being spread.

[Creekwater Werts]

Creek- 1. 5 years ago Gray was a new school with no kids that had gone through the program for 4 years. They now have kids that come in as freshman and grow as better players. So that is how they have gotten better.
2. Head Coach Name is Holmes not Smith. 3. KZ Adams was a freshman 4 years ago and has been one of the top RBs in the state the past 4 years.
4. Yes Gray has a QB that played at batesburg as a soph. But they also have 7 guys playing both sides of the ball and have been in the program and varsity starters for 3/4 years. Gotta give those kids their credit.
5. Gray only has 30 players. 6. They have to follow the same exact transfer rules as a gaffney or abbeville or anyone. If a new kid comes from out of district (lex2) they have to make a move to be varsity eligible or they sit a year. And your recruiting pipeline statement is pretty baseless. Otherwise the roster would be 60 every year.

Rebel- agree with you on the defining "recruiting"- and your next statement holds for any school Because a kid wants to go to gray, abbeville, saluda, insert any school you want doesn't mean there is recruiting. You can't just assume a kid wouldnt want to go to a 2A school, he must have been recruited.

Im not trying to go back and forth arguing because people will believe what they want. Just wanted to give an opinion on the other side of things and hopefully that can be respected. But I do think you should base comments on truths not what you think is or isnt happening based off success. Last thing is a lot of these comments take away from the successes of kids.

1). Fair point, I guess. Still, I don't think it's because they were in the program that long. This is 2A HS football not college. A good coach can turn a 2 win team to a 10 win team in one year with no new pieces. Happens fairly often with good coaches haha.

2). Adam smith lololol. You win this one, I drifted back to history class for a sec.

3). You really think KZ reached out and said hey I wanna go to Gray without enticement? I don't know KZ so I don't want to make any assumptions, but I find it hard to believe he reached out to Gray and not vice versa. Again, don't know him, so don't really care to speak.

4). I don't want to take anything away from the kids. Proud of any kid to pick up a football and learn about life. And truly, I don't think anyone is doing anything wrong. I do believe, however, that teams like that have more of an advantage than teams with the same roster size.

5). The number is not the point it's the quality. That's like saying the Dallas Cowboys have a smaller roster than a college team. True, but they get to select their players from various college teams. So that does'nt really pertain to the point I'm trying to make.

6). They follow the same transfer rules but not the same recruiting rules, that simple. Maybe my recruiting comment is baseless, but it is too obvious to see. Not only is Gray benefiting, but they are also stripping the best players from other 2A schools promising better chances for exposure. You literally said it yourself. Gray took B&L's best player. Not only does that help them, but it's hindering other schools in the region. Don't belive me go look at B&L's record last year vs. this year. Double Whammy.

All in all, you make some fair points. But but lets be real. Nobody is transferring into other 2A schools like they are Gray. It's just a fact. Also, nobody is arguing that you can't do what you're doing. We just feel that as people competing against a team in the same classification, with advantages that we not only don't benefit from, but get hindered by, is a little unfair. Play in a classification that better suits your talent level/ability to attract talent. 2A is not it. Nobody else in the state is pulling in players like Gray.

If you all want to make the argument that I have a poor understanding, please provide examples of other 2A schools pulling in players. All these abbeville and saluda transfers yall keep talking about. Oh yeah, they don't exist.

I'd be willing to bet Gray gets more transfer *players* per year than probably all of the 2A upperstate teams combined.

So one last time. We don't care that you do what you do. We just want a fair playing field in one stop light towns. Capeesh?

[Creekwater Werts]

SCSports - You are correct. Their is a LOT of poor information and incorrect information being spread.

Care to elaborate?

[SCSports91]

Appreciate the good convo and I understand where you are coming from. Bottom line is 2A will always be an Abbeville, Gray, Saluda, maybe Newberry classification. And there will be times where you have teams like Barnwell had a few years back. Everything goes through cycles and when you get guys that have been in a program four 4 years (like a Dallan Wright or Noah Bell), your team is gonna win. That is why I say Gray is getting better now as opposed to 5 years ago. They have guys that have been through a program, have an 8th grade now, are adding a 7th grade.
It is not like there are 10 new juniors or seniors coming every year. I am sure all of 2A will be glad when they don't have to see Adams at RB next year haha. Just like everyone in 2A was glad to never have to go against Bell and Wright again after they graduated. Gray will always be a top team just like Abbeville and Saluda, but they will go through fazes where they aren't quite as good as this year and last. They will have to replace a lot of seniors next year and I am sure it will at show at times.

Good luck with Newberry tonight. Hopefully the rain holds off.

[Rebel-Fan-74]

3). You really think KZ reached out and said hey I wanna go to Gray without enticement? I don't know KZ so I don't want to make any assumptions, but I find it hard to believe he reached out to Gray and not vice versa. Again, don't know him, so don't really care to speak.

But most people take what you admit and jump to the opposite conclusion.... instead of saying I find it hard to believe they jump and go all the way to the other statement, the school recruited them! But good on you, you at least admit that it is possible that the school didn't "recruit" him.

[Rebel-Fan-74]

After all this discussion, all we have determined is what we all knew before the thread started. There is not an easy answer...


Leave them where they are: Not fair that they get to openly recruit and can stack their teams with players and it is only going to get worse with time.

Make them play up a level/Make them all play at 5A: Then you punish teams that are not recruiting and you pass the "cheaters" on to others, not really settle the issue

Give them their own classification: They don't have enough teams to form their own classifications, can't fill a schedule, travel issues, etc.

[Creekwater Werts]

After all this discussion, all we have determined is what we all knew before the thread started. There is not an easy answer...


Leave them where they are: Not fair that they get to openly recruit and can stack their teams with players and it is only going to get worse with time.

Make them play up a level/Make them all play at 5A: Then you punish teams that are not recruiting and you pass the "cheaters" on to others, not really settle the issue

Give them their own classification: They don't have enough teams to form their own classifications, can't fill a schedule, travel issues, etc.

I do understand where your coming from on this. And there is no way to determine attraction vs. recruitment which makes it a lot harder.

But to me, the question we need to ask ourselves is simple.

Regardless of attraction or recruitment, do 4A/5A teams benefit from players transferring in from inferior or smaller schools? Yes

Regardless of attraction or recruitment, do collegiate schools benefit from players transferring in from inferior or smaller schools? Yes

Regardless of attraction or recruitment, do typical 2A teams benefit from players transferring in from inferior or smaller schools? Resounding No.

If it does happen, it's on rare occasion and not comparable to the frequency of the two former examples. On top of that, many of Gray's incoming transfers are players from rival teams they've played in the past. They took B&L's best player last year and look at how that's affected them. So not only is it giving Gray an advantage, in many instances, it's detrimental to the very teams they compete against. Teams that can't go to Gray's players and recruit them.

I get everyone's point, I just don't see how you can look at this situation and want to just leave it. There is a solution, just not one that leaves everyone happy. But now, the only ones left unhappy are the small 2A schools who never benefit from this kind of stuff. I don't see how it's right to those kids. Maybe I am a little biased because I'm apart of that group, but I just don't see how we can allow many schools to not have a chance. Sure a lot of those teams would lose to other elite 2A schools anyway, but at that point, at least there is a level playing field.

Also, sorry to all that may view my perspective as rude. I have spoken to many people on this and the only ones who disagree are teams of a higher classification, or representatives of Collegiate schools themselves. Both of which, have been dismissive of my points, saying "Just get better" or something along those lines. It is very frustrating to try to hear someone else's side when they refuse to hear yours. It's not about "getting better" or the fact that I am directly hindered by these schools in any way. I just want an even playing field for everyone involved, for the kid's sakes.

[Creekwater Werts]

After all this discussion, all we have determined is what we all knew before the thread started. There is not an easy answer...


Leave them where they are: Not fair that they get to openly recruit and can stack their teams with players and it is only going to get worse with time.

Make them play up a level/Make them all play at 5A: Then you punish teams that are not recruiting and you pass the "cheaters" on to others, not really settle the issue

Give them their own classification: They don't have enough teams to form their own classifications, can't fill a schedule, travel issues, etc.

I do understand where your coming from on this. And there is no way to determine attraction vs. recruitment which makes it a lot harder.

But to me, the question we need to ask ourselves is simple.

Regardless of attraction or recruitment, do 4A/5A teams benefit from players transferring in from inferior or smaller schools? Yes

Regardless of attraction or recruitment, do collegiate schools benefit from players transferring in from inferior or smaller schools? Yes

Regardless of attraction or recruitment, do typical 2A teams benefit from players transferring in from inferior or smaller schools? Resounding No.

If it does happen, it's on rare occasion and not comparable to the frequency of the two former examples. On top of that, many of Gray's incoming transfers are players from rival teams they've played in the past. They took B&L's best player last year and look at how that's affected them. So not only is it giving Gray an advantage, in many instances, it's detrimental to the very teams they compete against. Teams that can't go to Gray's players and recruit them.

I get everyone's point, I just don't see how you can look at this situation and want to just leave it. There is a solution, just not one that leaves everyone happy. But now, the only ones left unhappy are the small 2A schools who never benefit from this kind of stuff. I don't see how it's right to those kids. Maybe I am a little biased because I'm apart of that group, but I just don't see how we can allow many schools to not have a chance. Sure a lot of those teams would lose to other elite 2A schools anyway, but at that point, at least there is a level playing field.

Also, sorry to all that may view my perspective as rude. I have spoken to many people on this and the only ones who disagree are teams of a higher classification, or representatives of Collegiate schools themselves. Both of which, have been dismissive of my points, saying "Just get better" or something along those lines. It is very frustrating to try to hear someone else's side when they refuse to hear yours. It's not about "getting better" or the fact that I am directly hindered by these schools in any way. I just want an even playing field for everyone involved, for the kid's sakes.

As for the teams who can't compete, refer to my earlier comment where someone and I recommended having an evaluation committee, which would evaluate these types of magnet schools annually. You could use that to start, and while it would hurt those academically concentrated schools initially, it would work after about 3 years. If we are that worried about those 2-3 teams, we can improvise and collect data. We live in a world filled with metrics and it really would not be hard to figure out where each magnet school should be classified, competitively. Plus their is only 6 of them. One person could literally determine in one day a rough estimate of where each of these magnet schools should be classified in terms of growth and recent performances. In a situation like this, I would see Gray and Ocean both starting out 3A (Maybe 4A pending results of this year), and Southside/others at 2A and below. I firmly believe Gray would be in just as good of shape in 3A as 2A, and I think anyone who has followed them this year can see that.

Go check out that comment and let me know what you think. Is this feasible?

[mrfootballtalk]

Creewater- I will elaborate. First off nothing I am going to say is new. But my point is that everyone recruits in some way. But for schools to just condemn others like they are just completely innocent is a joke. Gray benefits from a lot of crappy public school around them. Large public schools do it a ton. Here in the upstate you have Greenville thats gets a ton of kids every year under the magnet program. Wrenn gets a new QB every year. Dorman, Byrnes and Spartanburg all swap players. It is happening in every state and in every sport. Unfortunately, rural smaller schools are the victims but its not the private and charters fault. It's simply the town is dying and getting smaller which means less players and talent. The big schools that are losing players are losing them for one of the three reasons. 1. Instability in the program. 2. Not winning 3. Poor environment etc. So to pin the transfer problem of a few schools doesn't make sense. What to end the transfer issue ? Very simple if you transfer you sit... but the public schools will never vote for it....ask why? if they have all the voting power.